"Drive on the left"

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nowster
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Re: Re:

Post by nowster »

OLD GIT wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 13:41 The more sensible ones take a look at our love of roundabouts and give up. Son's FIL came over from LA for a holiday last year and thought of hiring. Till he thought of how to tackle roundabouts. A roundabout was something foreign to him, apparently.
Which is strange, as LA has roundabouts nowadays.
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OLD GIT
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by OLD GIT »

He told me that roundabouts were something he's never seen.
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KeithW
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by KeithW »

OLD GIT wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 14:14 He told me that roundabouts were something he's never seen.

I dont recall seeing one in LA but have seen em in Ohio, New England, NYC and Washington DC. They do tend to heavily signalise them though.
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Al__S
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Re: "Drive on the left"

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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Nwallace »

OLD GIT wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 13:14 Beaten to it on the problem on Highland roads , but I'll keep stum on my opinion on whether we need these signs in English ( or whatever the southern natives speak) for visitors from southern parts :bulb:
They also don't know the hierarchy of the road users in the highlands

Postie
Wildlife
Locals
HGV Drivers
Sassenacht Scots
Tourists

I've not yet come across someone driving on the wrong side thankfully, but I still regularly come across people who ignore the signs that say the vehicle on the left needs to pull into the passing place. Although it may be something to do with me being comfortable with driving to visibility on them, or that they've recently met the postie.
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Big Nick
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Big Nick »

Al__S wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 18:44 on topic- politely, in English and Portugese, in the fens
Google Translate says that is Spanish. I'll guess that G's Growers have a major link to Spain and lots of Spanish or Portuguese drivers. They even have a hostel for them to get a good night sleep in which is a sensible move for an international haulage firm.

What intrigues me is the sign at the other end of Goose Fen Drove - No Pedestrians or No Ramblers? :?
Can you really forbid walkers on a public lane like that?
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Berk
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Berk »

Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 23:04
Al__S wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 18:44 on topic- politely, in English and Portugese, in the fens
Google Translate says that is Spanish. I'll guess that G's Growers have a major link to Spain and lots of Spanish or Portuguese drivers. They even have a hostel for them to get a good night sleep in which is a sensible move for an international haulage firm.

What intrigues me is the sign at the other end of Goose Fen Drove - No Pedestrians or No Ramblers? :?
Can you really forbid walkers on a public lane like that?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.35457 ... 312!8i6656
I think the other sign is trying to suggest they might meet a fate worse than death if they dared to exercise their rights.
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OLD GIT
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by OLD GIT »

Nwallace wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 21:36
OLD GIT wrote: Tue Apr 09, 2019 13:14 Beaten to it on the problem on Highland roads , but I'll keep stum on my opinion on whether we need these signs in English ( or whatever the southern natives speak) for visitors from southern parts :bulb:
They also don't know the hierarchy of the road users in the highlands

Postie
Wildlife
Locals
HGV Drivers
Sassenacht Scots
Tourists

I've not yet come across someone driving on the wrong side thankfully, but I still regularly come across people who ignore the signs that say the vehicle on the left needs to pull into the passing place. Although it may be something to do with me being comfortable with driving to visibility on them, or that they've recently met the postie.
I used to live at the end of possibly the only A road( in theUK) which was single track, and we saw it regularly. We never had signs to say vehicle on left, but the signs said " use passing places to allow overtaking". So perhaps that was what confused them. Local police had answer. One of them met a tourist when he was not in uniform .The tourist had shot past a passing place and refused to reverse,saying they couldn't. Police response was to pull out warrant card and remind them that ability to reverse part og holding a car licence.
Personally I'd place Tourists at top of list. A lot of them are more "scenic gourmets"
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Big Nick wrote:
Al__S wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 18:44 on topic- politely, in English and Portugese, in the fens
Google Translate says that is Spanish. I'll guess that G's Growers have a major link to Spain and lots of Spanish or Portuguese drivers. They even have a hostel for them to get a good night sleep in which is a sensible move for an international haulage firm.

What intrigues me is the sign at the other end of Goose Fen Drove - No Pedestrians or No Ramblers? :?
Can you really forbid walkers on a public lane like that?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.35457 ... 312!8i6656
I understood it therefore it’s Spanish and not Portuguese
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KeithW
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by KeithW »

Big Nick wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 23:04
Al__S wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 18:44 on topic- politely, in English and Portugese, in the fens
Google Translate says that is Spanish. I'll guess that G's Growers have a major link to Spain and lots of Spanish or Portuguese drivers. They even have a hostel for them to get a good night sleep in which is a sensible move for an international haulage firm.

What intrigues me is the sign at the other end of Goose Fen Drove - No Pedestrians or No Ramblers? :?
Can you really forbid walkers on a public lane like that?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.35457 ... 312!8i6656
There is a sign preceding it which states that its a private road
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.35485 ... 312!8i6656
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Re:

Post by exiled »

Mark Hewitt wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:15
Big Nick wrote:
Al__S wrote: Wed Apr 10, 2019 18:44 on topic- politely, in English and Portugese, in the fens
Google Translate says that is Spanish. I'll guess that G's Growers have a major link to Spain and lots of Spanish or Portuguese drivers. They even have a hostel for them to get a good night sleep in which is a sensible move for an international haulage firm.

What intrigues me is the sign at the other end of Goose Fen Drove - No Pedestrians or No Ramblers? :?
Can you really forbid walkers on a public lane like that?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.35457 ... 312!8i6656
I understood it therefore it’s Spanish and not Portuguese
Spanish. The Portuguese for 'the(f)' is 'a', not 'la'.
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Euan
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Euan »

I have very often travelled by road in the Highlands and am aware of the numbers of tourists from countries which drive on the right that certain areas attract. Sometimes I reckon they might even drive to all the way to Scotland from whichever country they live in and I would think that several hours of driving on the left through England and lowland Scotland will allow for plenty of time to adjust to the idea.

Thankfully I have never witnessed for myself any drivers on the wrong side of the road, even in hotspots like Glen Coe and Skye.
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Berk »

Exactly. That’s why I find the idea that tourists getting confused about which is the right side of the road to drive on, to be strange at the very least.

You’d expect and understand it near the port of entry, but hundreds of miles in??

Like I say, more prominent reminders on articles and websites might help.
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Euan
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Euan »

Berk wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:38 Exactly. That’s why I find the idea that tourists getting confused about which is the right side of the road to drive on, to be strange at the very least.

You’d expect and understand it near the port of entry, but hundreds of miles in??

Like I say, more prominent reminders on articles and websites might help.
Having a relatively frequent flow of traffic going the other way will help as well since each passing car will serve as a reminder about which side of the road is the right side to drive on. Sometimes there will be a quiet stretch of road which could make it easier to forget to drive on the left, and if it is near a sharp bend or a blind summit then accidents could occur quite easily.
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by Owain »

Euan wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:58
Berk wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:38 Exactly. That’s why I find the idea that tourists getting confused about which is the right side of the road to drive on, to be strange at the very least.

You’d expect and understand it near the port of entry, but hundreds of miles in??

Like I say, more prominent reminders on articles and websites might help.
Having a relatively frequent flow of traffic going the other way will help as well since each passing car will serve as a reminder about which side of the road is the right side to drive on. Sometimes there will be a quiet stretch of road which could make it easier to forget to drive on the left, and if it is near a sharp bend or a blind summit then accidents could occur quite easily.
Yes, the presence of traffic can make a big difference.

The *only* times I've ever driven on the wrong side of the road were in car parks, or on unmarked roads in Scotland (where I was in 'holiday mode', but unusually in a country which doesn't drive on the other side of the road!).

The other day in Leeds I almost drove on the wrong side of the traffic island when turning right into this road! Why? A pedestrian was ambling across the road without looking, and I was preoccupied with not running him over. The reason he was crossing is because there was absolutely no traffic on that side of the island. I managed to stop when I saw that the stop line crossed the entire width of the carriageway, leaving me with nowhere to drive. I braked, and had to reverse a metre or so to be able to get around to the left of the island. It was a bit embarrassing, but as there was no traffic it wouldn't have done any harm if I'd just driven to the wrong side of the island, because there was no traffic (so long as I didn't run the guy over, which I'd already taken care not to do!).
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Re: "Drive on the left"

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Euan wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:28 I have very often travelled by road in the Highlands and am aware of the numbers of tourists from countries which drive on the right that certain areas attract. Sometimes I reckon they might even drive to all the way to Scotland from whichever country they live in and I would think that several hours of driving on the left through England and lowland Scotland will allow for plenty of time to adjust to the idea.
No... Several hours of driving on a different side of the road does not make up for years and years of learned behaviour, particularly where the several hours may have been on a motorway. Instinct takes over - the majority of such accidents will occur in the following scenarios:
1. driver pulls over to a layby on the opposite side of the road to look at a view, and sets off again on their usual side.
2. S1 widens to S2 and driver instinctively joins the wrong side
3. Roadworks reduce S2 to one lane, and driver is deposited on the wrong side of the road at the end of the works, and carries on.
4. Complex one way arrangements where the driver is on the wrong side already, and ends up continuting into a two way section.

The majority of these can be resolved with better road design, using paint for example to add more arrows, particularly in 1, 2, and 4 above.
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Re: "Drive on the left"

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c2R wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 01:08
Euan wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:28 I have very often travelled by road in the Highlands and am aware of the numbers of tourists from countries which drive on the right that certain areas attract. Sometimes I reckon they might even drive to all the way to Scotland from whichever country they live in and I would think that several hours of driving on the left through England and lowland Scotland will allow for plenty of time to adjust to the idea.
No... Several hours of driving on a different side of the road does not make up for years and years of learned behaviour, particularly where the several hours may have been on a motorway. Instinct takes over - the majority of such accidents will occur in the following scenarios:
1. driver pulls over to a layby on the opposite side of the road to look at a view, and sets off again on their usual side.
2. S1 widens to S2 and driver instinctively joins the wrong side
3. Roadworks reduce S2 to one lane, and driver is deposited on the wrong side of the road at the end of the works, and carries on.
4. Complex one way arrangements where the driver is on the wrong side already, and ends up continuting into a two way section.

The majority of these can be resolved with better road design, using paint for example to add more arrows, particularly in 1, 2, and 4 above.
However, on a motorway in the UK the vast majority of overtaking is done via a lane to the right - as it should be in most cases - rather than via a lane to the left as in countries which drive on the right. This may be one of the more minor details in knowing which side of the road to drive on, but it may still stand out as being different to what the driver is used to. Far more noticeable I think would be the opposite carriageway being visible on the right rather than on the left. Of course, this is not always the case such as on the M6 at Shap or on the A9 in Glen Garry. Obviously if someone flies to Scotland and hires a car at one of the major international airports the chances are that driving on some sections of motorway or dual carriageway will still be useful anyway, if only initially in order to reach the S2 roads in the Highlands.

I agree that better road designs could help solve some of the problems, such as designated entrances and exits to laybys for (1) where they do not currently exist but would be possible. I think it would be very difficult to unintentionally end up continuing to drive on the wrong side of the road after passing through single file roadworks as in (3). If the driver is in a queue they will follow the queue and stay on the correct side of the road and if they are at the front of the queue they will likely notice traffic queued at the other end of the roadworks and will avoid it. The worst case scenario would be if the driver is at the front of the queue and there is no queue at the other end to guide them onto the correct side of the road.
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Re: "Drive on the left"

Post by rachandsarai »

They have a few from Inverness near the A9. I've noticed just near North Kessock.
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Re: "Drive on the left"

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Euan wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:28 However, on a motorway in the UK the vast majority of overtaking is done via a lane to the right - as it should be in most cases - rather than via a lane to the left as in countries which drive on the right. This may be one of the more minor details in knowing which side of the road to drive on, but it may still stand out as being different to what the driver is used to. Far more noticeable I think would be the opposite carriageway being visible on the right rather than on the left. Of course, this is not always the case such as on the M6 at Shap or on the A9 in Glen Garry. Obviously if someone flies to Scotland and hires a car at one of the major international airports the chances are that driving on some sections of motorway or dual carriageway will still be useful anyway, if only initially in order to reach the S2 roads in the Highlands.
I don't see the relevance of this at all. As c2R says, using a local motorway does not prevent you from making mistakes on the local road network, regardless of how big the central reservation was. Anyone with any experience driving on the continent would be able to testify that.

It's not a case of not knowing which side of the road the country drives on. 99+% of visitors to Scotland know they drive on the left. The problem is the brain needs to be telling itself "this is not home, they drive on the left here" every single second; and the moment it doesn't is the moment you veer onto the wrong side. This isn't a problem when you're following another car or, as you say, when there's a central reservation, as those clues keep the brain focused. But as soon as you don't have those clues the mind wanders and you go back to your own 'default' mode.
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Re: "Drive on the left"

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c2R wrote: Sun Apr 14, 2019 01:08
Euan wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 22:28 I have very often travelled by road in the Highlands and am aware of the numbers of tourists from countries which drive on the right that certain areas attract. Sometimes I reckon they might even drive to all the way to Scotland from whichever country they live in and I would think that several hours of driving on the left through England and lowland Scotland will allow for plenty of time to adjust to the idea.
No... Several hours of driving on a different side of the road does not make up for years and years of learned behaviour, particularly where the several hours may have been on a motorway. Instinct takes over - the majority of such accidents will occur in the following scenarios:
1. driver pulls over to a layby on the opposite side of the road to look at a view, and sets off again on their usual side.
2. S1 widens to S2 and driver instinctively joins the wrong side
3. Roadworks reduce S2 to one lane, and driver is deposited on the wrong side of the road at the end of the works, and carries on.
4. Complex one way arrangements where the driver is on the wrong side already, and ends up continuting into a two way section.

The majority of these can be resolved with better road design, using paint for example to add more arrows, particularly in 1, 2, and 4 above.
Instinct is very important in this. The natural tendency in an emergency is for UK/Irish drivers to pull left, from France or the US the reverse is the case. That instinct gets hard wired in. That we have experienced drivers on SABRE who have admitted this in this thread shows this.

As for the points you've made, point 1 often appears in guidebooks that explicitly recommend only using left in left out fuel stations for that reason.

Point 2 somewhere I remember seeing the arrows painted down at the end of an S1 as it became S2 showing the side of the road to take.
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