M1 Junction 2

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DorsetWay
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Post by DorsetWay »

Out of interest, from the video I saw some streetlights having really long brackets, something you don't see very often due to most new streetlights today having post-top lanterns.

Are these streetlights actually right on the M1 or on the slip roads leading down to it? If anyone does know - didn't the M1, at the old J2 at that time, have any double headed lighting on the central reservation?

When the M1 was finally extended to Staples Corner including the opening of the new/current J2 - what was the type of lighting used when this part opened?

I assume the streetlights currently on the M1 today are the same as when the extension from J2 to J1 opened but have HPS SON (Urbis ZX) lanterns today so perhaps they had LPS SOX (Philips) yellow glow at that time. Am I right?

Cheers for any help.
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Bryn666
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Post by Bryn666 »

The original M1 lanterns north of J2 were mounted at the edges of the carriageway, not in the central reservation and were giant arms with GEC turtles. I do have a photograph, albeit on my other computer.

I shall dig it out and upload it later.
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rusty
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Post by rusty »

We used to use this section of the M1 to get into London when I was a youngster (late 80s). I can recall the lamps being the same as the ones shown [url=http://www.btinternet.com/~roads/pix/m1 ... slip_5.jpg" target="blank]here[/url], although the elbows were curved and the arms were longer, as you've already said. I used to look out for them because you didn't often see this type of lantern without bowls on.

Over a long straight stretch of concrete carriageway they created a very un-British and slightly eerie effect. Although possibly the eeriness of the memory was due to this being the first place I heard Chris Rea's "The Road To Hell" when it was first released.
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DorsetWay
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Post by DorsetWay »

So are you actually saying that these long bracketed columns with cut-off GEC Turtles were also used right down to J1 at Staples Corner when the extension southwards opened?

I assumed low pressure sodium (yellow glow) versions were used at that point as they were popular on motorways from the 70s. When the M11 opened in the 70s the streetlights mostly had LPS until recently that new HPS Iridium lanterns have made their debut at Charlie Browns and the M25 interchange.
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Gav
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Gav »

Saw this - picture looking south - So the advance warning signs for the bend would have been the ext terminus of the motorway.....Still trying to work out the motorway layout at this temporary junction.....
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Andy33gmail »

Looks like MLMs were a problem back then too!
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Chris5156
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Chris5156 »

What a brilliant picture! I remember those enormous streetlights were there when I was a kid and I would always look out for them on the way to London. A lot of them were sawn off and had new lanterns fitted to the shortened arms in the early 90s - perhaps because the metal was starting to weaken - but they were all removed at least 15 years ago now.

Where's the picture from?
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Sabrista »

Memories...!

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wrinkly
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by wrinkly »

Gav wrote:Still trying to work out the motorway layout at this temporary junction.....
When the M1 was first extended to the vicinity of Bunns Lane, southbound traffic, narrowed to two lanes, was forced off the future M1 alignment and under Watford Way (A1/A41 multiplex) to merge from the left with the southbound carriageway of Watford Way. Northbound traffic wishing to join the M1 turned off the northbound Watford Way, across the future southbound M1 on the level, and onto the northbound M1.

In the next stage some years later, the Fiveways Corner flyover (A1/A41) was built, and opened in a temporary configuration, and the northbound side of the M1 was extended south to meet it. For southbound traffic, everything was unchanged from the previous stage. The southbound M1 still ended in the same place (at least as seen by the traffic - I don't know if the southbound carriageway was extended but not opened).

Northbound traffic from the A41 wishing to join the M1 proceeded as before except that when joining the M1 northbound it was not alone, there was a flow of northbound traffic on its left already on the M1, coming from the new flyover.

Northbound traffic approaching Apex Corner on the A1 from the SE had a 3-way choice. It could keep left and go to the roundabout. Or it could follow the middle route over the new flyover, over the roundabout, over the unopened future M1, join the future northbound M1 from the left as today, and be joined on the right by traffic from Watford Way.

Or it could keep right (crossing, I think, to what is now the southbound carriageway of the flyover), over the roundabout and down, and then merge with the northbound Watford Way (I think at signals). It would then have a second chance to join the northbound M1 (or not).

Then in the third stage the M1 was extended to the A406 and the present layout instituted.
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Chris5156
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Chris5156 »

wrinkly wrote:When the M1 was first extended to the vicinity of Bunns Lane, southbound traffic, narrowed to two lanes, was forced off the future M1 alignment and under Watford Way (A1/A41 multiplex) to merge from the left with the southbound carriageway of Watford Way.
This temporary slip still exists, of course, but looks to be only wide enough for one lane. Was it really two lanes?
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wrinkly
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by wrinkly »

I seem to remember it being two narrow lanes, but I only ever drove (or was driven) over it about twice. By the time you got to it the speed limit had been counted down to 30.
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Patrick Harper
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Patrick Harper »

There can't have been enough space for a hard shoulder then...
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wrinkly
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by wrinkly »

Indeed there wasn't.
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Gav
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Gav »

So if I think on this and what you have said.

M1 extended to wards London and ends just shy of the current junction 2. South bound traffic is shunted off under the Watford way and up to meet it. I can see that old slip on google earth. Access to the motorway would be through what is now the garage slip road and that would take you down on to the M1 north,

Works were being done to create the over pass at the A1 / A41 junction this would have then opened with traffic using the Opposite carriage way bridge what is now the south bound lane to come onto the M1 on the wrong side. traffic being shunted over to the Northbound to meet with the temporary on ramp from the original terminus. This giving you what you described earlier. A second chance to join the M1 when heading up the A41.

Next stwp would be when the flyover was properly opened. The temporary slip from the A1 to the M1 would have been removed and Northbound traffic would have swapped onto the correct carriageway on the flyover to come in and join the M1 on the northbound side. I wonder if they kept that temporary off slip from the M1 operating a while longer. Suppose it all hinged on the southern extension to the A406. If that wasnt open then that slip would still be required to deal with traffic wanting the A41. Also I dont see that temporary entrance being removed until the southern extension opened so the M1 must have run like M1-2 picture from some time.....
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WHBM
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by WHBM »

I think this one has come up a couple of times before.

The southbound temporary tie-in underneath Watford Way made use of the bridge which used to carry the old LNER railway from Finsbury Park to Edgware under the road. This was finally abandoned in 1964, having been goods trains only since before WW2, and must have been converted pretty promptly to the temporary motorway slip.
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Patrick Harper
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Patrick Harper »

Speaking of the lighting, the Turtles must have burned mercury when they were new 'cause SON never caught on until the 80s.

I am not old enough to remember the Turtles, although I think there were MA50s from J1 to J2 until 10 years ago...ish. North of J4 is just 1973 columns with mid 80s lanterns.
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wrinkly
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by wrinkly »

Gav wrote:So if I think on this and what you have said.
Your description and diagram of the second interim phase don't entirely accord with what I was trying to convey.

Traffic coming from the City on the A1, if it followed the middle path, would join the northbound M1 by the same route as today.

As I understand it, traffic coming from the City on the A1, if it kept right, would cross to the "wrong" carriageway to go over the A41, and would go part-way down what is now the M1 southbound off slip, but before reaching the M1 it would be diverted to the right onto a temporary slip road and would merge from the left (at traffic lights, I think) with the northbound carriageway of Watford Way. It would then have the choice of either continuing on Watford Way or joining the M1. This would be its second chance to join the M1, but the same M1 on-slip, unchanged from the previous phase, would be the only chance of joining the M1 for traffic coming on the A41 from Brent Cross or the West End.

This second phase remained until the M1 was ready to be opened to Brent Cross.

Edit: go to http://www.old-maps.co.uk
fill in the grid ref TQ220910 and click "Search"
select "OS Plan 1971-1975 1:1,250 Enlarge View"
or "OS Plan (partial) 1976 1:10,000 Enlarge View"

click on "-" a few times to take the scale down until you see something useful, but not so many times that it switches you to a modern map.
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Gav
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by Gav »

Now this clicks - I see it - never thought they were using the southbound overpass to provide a link to the A41 north - that was good thinking indeed.

It makes sense of the video on youtube of the M1 start with the traffic already there it didnt make sense but it does now.
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Post by Patrick Harper »

DorsetWay wrote:I assumed low pressure sodium (yellow glow) versions were used at that point as they were popular on motorways from the 70s. When the M11 opened in the 70s the streetlights mostly had LPS until recently that new HPS Iridium lanterns have made their debut at Charlie Browns and the M25 interchange.
SOX was used at the M25/M11 and Charlie Browns until about 10 years ago. There's quite a good set of photos of them here, shortly before they bit the dust.
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wrinkly
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Re: M1 Junction 2

Post by wrinkly »

HE making an order to close the remains of the former southbound slip road:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/2564695
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