A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
Rillington
Member
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
Location: Manchester

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Rillington »

wrinkly wrote:I seem to remember that about 10 years ago there was actually an official report on a possible grade-separated route or routes from Hopgrove to Malton and Malton to Scarborough (or at least to the start of the Seamer bypass). The report was online for a year or two.
At the start of the 1990s the DfT put together formal proposals for this, albeit only to Seamer. The Malton to Seamer section would have been a new road, running just to the south of the railway line.
User avatar
jgharston
Member
Posts: 2437
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:06
Location: Sheffield/Whitby

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by jgharston »

JLRacerZz wrote:Do you guys think the A64 dulling is going to be mostly offline or online to the current A64? and I agree they should just make Barton crossroads a full GSJ there wasting time and money they should be future proofing not just put a plaster on it
Between Hopgrove and Barton Hill there's red-lined and land-banked land to allow online widening and going offline would introduce some odd bends, between Barton Hill and Malton to eliminate the bad bends it will need to be offline, probably something similar to this suggested by an earlier poster.
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by NICK 647063 »

So on the news today a study has revealed that the A64 Hopgrove Junction was the most congested junction in Yorkshire which is quite a claim as we have many major motorway junctions in Yorkshire, in the whole of last year it became congested over 1000 times with an average queue of 2.5 miles long, obviously summer time is a major problem here but it’s a problem year round now, hopefully the planned dualling east of Hopgrove will sort this issue.
Rillington
Member
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
Location: Manchester

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Rillington »

I'm not at all surprised.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by jackal »

Kevin Hollinrake MP:
I am extremely concerned that plans to dual the carriageway between Hopgrove Roundabout and Barton Hill could be shelved. After pressing for an update on the plans I have been notified by Highways England in a letter of 12th March (attached) that traffic flow assessments have indicated that there may be a need to build a number of bridges to cope with the extra volume of traffic coming on to the dual carriageway from neighbouring areas and this would significantly add to the cost of the project, that this might raise questions about the overall value of the project and that the matter is now with the Department of Transport for review.

I have written to the Secretary of State, Chris Grayling MP asking for an urgent meeting. The project, which was supposed to get underway in 2022, is already behind schedule. I have been campaigning for years, alongside Scarborough MP Robert Goodwill and the A64 Growth Partnership, which includes businesses, local authorities and Local Enterprise Partnership, for an extension of the dual carriageway for which there is a clear economic case. I have been told repeatedly that it is on schedule and so it is extremely disappointing to learn that there may now be some serious risks to work going ahead. I shall continue to do what I can to make sure that the scheme is approved and work starts as soon as possible. This road, on average, carries twice the amount of traffic recommended for a single carriageway and is a major bottleneck and barrier to investment in my constituency and on the East Coast. We must deliver this improvement.
https://www.kevinhollinrake.org.uk/news ... arriageway

The wording is a little strange, but it seems this refers to a need to grade separate the dualled road. The previous plan would have kept junctions at-grade (including Hopgrove).

If you read the HE letter itself (at the same link) it reports the need for the bridges factually, rather than saying that this endangers the scheme. They are passing it to their masters at DfT to decide. It would be rather bizarre for the improvement to be cancelled altogether because the road is expected to be so busy that dualling alone isn't enough!
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by NICK 647063 »

I did find the wording a little strange, he basically feared it could be shelved yet in the article clearly it says Chris Grayling will take it up directly with HE, I’m no expert but I was always aware a number of bridges would be needed as the side roads are too busy to just have at grade crossings like the ones on the dualled A66 which my I add even with lower flows than the A64 side roads have become death traps....

I know they did a very in-depth study last year of the A64 and the computer traffic models showed that a dualled A64 will pull all the traffic that is currently avoiding it back onto it so this will likely be the reason why the bridges are now a must rather than at grade crossings, also surely the fact that the A64 will be so busy cements the case for the upgrade, I do think this one will go ahead but it will just cost a lot more than first expected as like I say they must now install quite a few bridges, this does also beg the question what about the newly built at grade crossing at Barton Hill clearly that section will see a massive traffic increase so if at grade crossing are not suitable for the proposed section then Barton Hill must also need a bridge?

Anyway let see what happens.
User avatar
Euan
Member
Posts: 1851
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 07:59
Location: North Ayrshire

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Euan »

It could prove to be problematic if the dualled road was built with at-grade junctions only for it to soon be realised that they are not fit for purpose, then they would have to be substantially altered which would probably be more expensive and disruptive for traffic through the area than if any potential problems with at-grade junctions were completely ironed out by dualling the road with grade separated junctions.
E-roads, M-roads, A-roads, N-roads, B-roads, R-roads, C-roads, L-roads, U-roads, footpaths
User avatar
Stevie D
Member
Posts: 8000
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 17:19
Location: Yorkshire

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Stevie D »

Euan wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 20:10It could prove to be problematic if the dualled road was built with at-grade junctions only for it to soon be realised that they are not fit for purpose, then they would have to be substantially altered which would probably be more expensive and disruptive for traffic through the area than if any potential problems with at-grade junctions were completely ironed out by dualling the road with grade separated junctions.
It definitely makes sense to 'future-proof' the road by putting in whatever provision is likely to be needed in the next 10—20 years, say, rather than risk having to disrupt a much busier road a few years down the line when it could be done at lower cost and with less disruption if it was done at the start.

Between York and Malton, not counting Hopgrove itself or the York Road junction at the start of the Malton by-pass, I can only see three junctions that would definitely need to be grade-separated – Hazelbush, Flaxton/Claxton and Barton Hill – plus an outside bet on Crambeck/Welburn Lodge. Apart from that, all other junctions should be fine as LILO or BILO, with right-turns not permitted at the junction to be carried out by going down to the next full access junction and u-turning or using alternative backroads.
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by NICK 647063 »

Between York and Malton, not counting Hopgrove itself or the York Road junction at the start of the Malton by-pass, I can only see three junctions that would definitely need to be grade-separated – Hazelbush, Flaxton/Claxton and Barton Hill – plus an outside bet on Crambeck/Welburn Lodge. Apart from that, all other junctions should be fine as LILO or BILO, with right-turns not permitted at the junction to be carried out by going down to the next full access junction and u-turning or using alternative backroads.
That’s pretty much what I was thinking but surely they must have expected to need bridges at these locations it’s pretty worrying they would build it without bridges, the only other one I expect needs a bridge is the sand Hutton one for the science laboratory as it’s already expanding and a GSJ was already mentioned a few years ago as HE would not allow a roundabout (thank god) I’m sure that had some developer funding cash put aside for it as part of the planning application..... of course depending on the A64 route options if it was online which I expect then sand Hutton would need a GSJ but if it was offline here the old A64 could provide the access to the science laboratory via the Hazelbush GSJ as it’s not far away for workers from the West and via Flaxton/Claxton GSJ from the east.
Rillington
Member
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 19:10
Location: Manchester

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Rillington »

Regardless of the wording, he is raising an extremely important concern, that the dualling between Hop Grove and Barton may end up being shelved.

I think that if you do dual the road then full consideration to GSJs has to be given but they are likely to be less needed given that there are no major junctions on the A64 between Hop Grove and the start of the Malton bypass.
Repmobile
Member
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 14:48
Location: North Yorkshire

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Repmobile »

From today's York Evening Press:
York could lose out to South as bid to end A64 misery branded ‘low value for money’.

HIGHWAYS bosses say their plans to dual the A64 east of York - and tackle a bottleneck which caused motoring misery throughout Easter - are now viewed as ‘low value for money.’

The assessment by Highways England (HE) has been branded ‘completely ludicrous’ by Thirsk and Malton MP Kevin Hollinrake, who says he has been told by HE insiders that the scheme is competing with similar ones in the south, including a planned expressway between Oxford and Cambridge.

“Loss of our scheme to a southern-based project would be outrageous and unacceptable,” he said.

Motorists heading to the Yorkshire Coast faced lengthy delays throughout the Easter Bank Holiday weekend as they got stuck at the pinch-point created at the Hopgrove roundabout, where the dual carriageway narrows to a single carriageway.
Full story: https://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/175897 ... for-money/

I fear that Hopgrove roundabout will remain and the A64 will never get dualled during my lifetime!
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by jackal »

It would be surprising if a sensibly designed grade separated D2 had poor VfM here. Volumes are higher than almost any S2 on the trunk network, including sections of A1 and A303 in the pipeline, and York to Malton is a clear bottleneck. Land isn't especially expensive here, nor do the works look especially complex.

I wonder if it is some strange proposal that's giving low VfM, e.g. grade separate minor junctions but leave Hopgrove at-grade, or upgrade side junctions to full two-bridge roundabouts. Aside from Hopgrove every current junction would be fine as a LILO, bridge without interchange, or compact GSJ.
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by NICK 647063 »

It would be surprising if a sensibly designed grade separated D2 had poor VfM here. Volumes are higher than almost any S2 on the trunk network, including sections of A1 and A303 in the pipeline, and York to Malton is a clear bottleneck. Land isn't especially expensive here, nor do the works look especially complex.

I wonder if it is some strange proposal that's giving low VfM, e.g. grade separate minor junctions but leave Hopgrove at-grade, or upgrade side junctions to full two-bridge roundabouts. Aside from Hopgrove every current junction would be fine as a LILO, bridge without interchange, or compact GSJ.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the value for money, apparently due to the anticipated increase in traffic an improved A64 would pull off other local roads they have added many more bridges and GSJ’s, while this is great to have such a high spec it is never going to score high in the value for money terms but in the long term it would, as we could simply do an upgrade on the cheap like the A66 with at grade crossroads but look at all the deaths that have occurred since that was done and we all know each fatal costs millions not to mention the effect on the family....

The A64 is a strange one as they state it’s too busy for a cheaper upgrade but then a higher spec is low value for money, surely this looks like a case of trying to make this upgrade not feasible so the money can be used elsewhere!

Surely the sensible thing to do is meet halfway and agree a budget and then try and work on a plan of what can be done, as you say the A64 here is busier than most single carriageway trunk roads yet they seem reluctant to do anything, maybe North Yorkshire county council and York council both need to get involved as didn’t Cornwall provide some money towards the A30 upgrade to kick start it?
User avatar
jgharston
Member
Posts: 2437
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:06
Location: Sheffield/Whitby

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by jgharston »

jackal wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 18:35 It would be surprising if a sensibly designed grade separated D2 had poor VfM here. Volumes are higher than almost any S2 on the trunk network, including sections of A1 and A303 in the pipeline, and York to Malton is a clear bottleneck. Land isn't especially expensive here, nor do the works look especially complex.
Plus most of the land take between Hopgrove and Barton Hill is already landbanked.
Robert Kilcoyne
Member
Posts: 966
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:41
Location: Birmingham

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

NICK 647063 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 19:03 Surely the sensible thing to do is meet halfway and agree a budget and then try and work on a plan of what can be done, as you say the A64 here is busier than most single carriageway trunk roads yet they seem reluctant to do anything, maybe North Yorkshire county council and York council both need to get involved as didn’t Cornwall provide some money towards the A30 upgrade to kick start it?
I would have thought that as North Yorkshire relies heavily on tourism (as does Cornwall) that North Yorkshire County Council should get involved as frequent reports of lengthy queues on the A64 could deter potential tourists from visiting the area and boosting the local economies of Scarborough, Filey, Whitby and the North York Moors area.
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16908
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Chris5156 »

Robert Kilcoyne wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:53
NICK 647063 wrote: Tue Apr 23, 2019 19:03 Surely the sensible thing to do is meet halfway and agree a budget and then try and work on a plan of what can be done, as you say the A64 here is busier than most single carriageway trunk roads yet they seem reluctant to do anything, maybe North Yorkshire county council and York council both need to get involved as didn’t Cornwall provide some money towards the A30 upgrade to kick start it?
I would have thought that as North Yorkshire relies heavily on tourism (as does Cornwall) that North Yorkshire County Council should get involved as frequent reports of lengthy queues on the A64 could deter potential tourists from visiting the area and boosting the local economies of Scarborough, Filey, Whitby and the North York Moors area.
I don’t disagree with any of this, but I would be absolutely astonished if NYCC weren’t already heavily involved in the process.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by KeithW »

Chris5156 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:59 I don’t disagree with any of this, but I would be absolutely astonished if NYCC weren’t already heavily involved in the process.
They are, along with York, East Riding CC and various businesses in the region.

Agriculture and industry are actually much more important to this area than tourism which is a bit of a 2 edged sword. There are few places where its harder to find a job than a seaside resort in winter.

https://www.businessinspiredgrowth.com/ ... rtnership/
85CF380
Member
Posts: 326
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 18:51
Location: W Yorks

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by 85CF380 »

The feasibility study thinks Hopgrove has 15 years left in, so leave it out & dual the gap to Barton le Willows.
Plan B only dualled as far as Towthorpe Lane & finished at a new roundabout - If they think a roundabout at Towthorpe Lane can cope then another roundabout junction further east rather than a GSJ before Barton would cope. It'd be a bit like going round Brackley on the A43 , but that manages with 30,000 AADT - it'd be crap but not as crappy as it currently is.
User avatar
jgharston
Member
Posts: 2437
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 18:06
Location: Sheffield/Whitby

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by jgharston »

85CF380 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:44 The feasibility study thinks Hopgrove has 15 years left in, so leave it out & dual the gap to Barton le Willows.
Yes, the main problem is not Hopgrove itself, it's the fact that Hopgrove dumps four lanes of traffic onto one.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

Post by Bryn666 »

Sounds like excuses being made not to do it.

That or some idiot has said it needs to be a full blown expressway when it doesn't - compact GSJs, LILOs and stopping up/diversion of tiny side roads would do.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Post Reply