A64 YORK HOPGROVE ROUNDABOUT IMPROVEMENT

[NICK 647063]

So to drag up an old topic as part of the autumn statement the Hopgrove roundabout popped up on the list of schemes, I like many others know the issues are more with the lane drop after the roundabout anyway It would seem the budget for the A64 Hopgrove GSJ is a massive £250 million which will also include some dualling eastwards for that money I guess linking up to the D2 section at Barton hill this below is from MP Robert Goodwill:

A64
Thursday, 4 December, 2014
Robert Goodwill has welcomed the announcement that the A64 will get a share of the £15bn roads investment package announced as part of the 2014 Autumn Statement. He said:

“The announcement on Monday includes up to £250m to address the capacity problems on the Hopgrove section of the A64. Obviously the way to approach the upgrading has always been to start at the West where the traffic is heaviest. Once the road reaches Malton, the traffic splits with some going to Pickering/Whitby, some to Beverley/Driffield and quite a lot going to the Malton area as a final destination. Whilst Rillington can be a pinch point, the road generally runs OK to Staxton unless there is an accident. The traffic data bears this out. Hopgrove is a real problem east bound during the evening rush hour (particularly on Friday evenings) as the roundabout slows everyone down. The reduction to single carriageway is also an issue but if grade separation was carried out with a flyover then the Scarborough bound traffic would not be mixed up with cars wanting to go to York and Monk's Cross. Eastbound (on Sunday evenings) presents an issue at the end of the Malton Bypass and also at Hopgrove. This is despite the fact that the road goes to dual at Hopgrove but the Roundabout prevents the vehicles getting quickly onto the bypass at York. Grade separation will solve this straight away.

The budget for this is a massive sum of up to £250m which would then allow us to extend the dualling toward Malton. Our challenge, as the scheme is specified, is to get as much dualling as possible and to address some of the dangerous junctions such as those at Stockton on Forest and Flaxton.

The Northern York outer ring road is not a Highways Agency route and so cannot be part of this investment”.

[jgharston]

This is despite the fact that the road goes to dual at Hopgrove but the Roundabout prevents the vehicles getting quickly onto the bypass at York. Grade separation will solve this straight away.
...
Our challenge, ... is to get as much dualling as possible and to address some of the dangerous junctions such as those at Stockton on Forest and Flaxton.

I personally don't feel there is anything wrong traffic-wise with a roundabout at Hopgrove, other than the purity of having a continuous roundabout-free GSR road. I'd prefer the money to be spend on more dualling between York and Malton. As many people here know, the real problem is the lane drop immediately east of the roundabout. I can see this ending up spending all the money on a fancy fly-over that drops all the traffic onto the S2 A64 eastbound. Finish the dualling first, then measure traffic levels and if it justifies it do something at Hopgrove.

Travelling westbound there's already almost a GSJ from the Malton A64 to the A64 bypass as online traffic is filtered into a continuous lane onto the bypass. If it's demanded those lanes could be shifted south a couple of yards and a physical barrier put alongside them. Alterations to east-bound traffic could be done better with giving it more signalling priority over other traffic. Putting in a flyover is just pandering to civil engineer designers and builders.

[Rillington]

So to drag up an old topic as part of the autumn statement the Hopgrove roundabout popped up on the list of schemes, I like many others know the issues are more with the lane drop after the roundabout anyway It would seem the budget for the A64 Hopgrove GSJ is a massive £250 million which will also include some dualling eastwards for that money I guess linking up to the D2 section at Barton hill this below is from MP Robert Goodwill:

A64
Thursday, 4 December, 2014
Robert Goodwill has welcomed the announcement that the A64 will get a share of the £15bn roads investment package announced as part of the 2014 Autumn Statement. He said:

“The announcement on Monday includes up to £250m to address the capacity problems on the Hopgrove section of the A64. Obviously the way to approach the upgrading has always been to start at the West where the traffic is heaviest. Once the road reaches Malton, the traffic splits with some going to Pickering/Whitby, some to Beverley/Driffield and quite a lot going to the Malton area as a final destination. Whilst Rillington can be a pinch point, the road generally runs OK to Staxton unless there is an accident. The traffic data bears this out. Hopgrove is a real problem east bound during the evening rush hour (particularly on Friday evenings) as the roundabout slows everyone down. The reduction to single carriageway is also an issue but if grade separation was carried out with a flyover then the Scarborough bound traffic would not be mixed up with cars wanting to go to York and Monk's Cross. Eastbound (on Sunday evenings) presents an issue at the end of the Malton Bypass and also at Hopgrove. This is despite the fact that the road goes to dual at Hopgrove but the Roundabout prevents the vehicles getting quickly onto the bypass at York. Grade separation will solve this straight away.

The budget for this is a massive sum of up to £250m which would then allow us to extend the dualling toward Malton. Our challenge, as the scheme is specified, is to get as much dualling as possible and to address some of the dangerous junctions such as those at Stockton on Forest and Flaxton.

The Northern York outer ring road is not a Highways Agency route and so cannot be part of this investment”.

I hope that what he talks about actually happens and that the A64 is dualled to at least Malton.

[Stevie D]

I personally don't feel there is anything wrong traffic-wise with a roundabout at Hopgrove, other than the purity of having a continuous roundabout-free GSR road. I'd prefer the money to be spend on more dualling between York and Malton. As many people here know, the real problem is the lane drop immediately east of the roundabout. I can see this ending up spending all the money on a fancy fly-over that drops all the traffic onto the S2 A64 eastbound. Finish the dualling first, then measure traffic levels and if it justifies it do something at Hopgrove.

Travelling westbound there's already almost a GSJ from the Malton A64 to the A64 bypass as online traffic is filtered into a continuous lane onto the bypass. If it's demanded those lanes could be shifted south a couple of yards and a physical barrier put alongside them. Alterations to east-bound traffic could be done better with giving it more signalling priority over other traffic. Putting in a flyover is just pandering to civil engineer designers and builders.

I completely agree.

At least 95% of the congestion and delay caused around Hopgrove and along the A64 to Scarborough is caused by the single carriageway sections between Malton and Hopgrove. Both eastbound in the morning and westbound in the afternoon/evening, there are regularly long queues where two or three lanes of traffic squeeze into one.

The roundabout does not cause significant delays. Yes, it might add a minute to your journey if you catch the lights just wrong, at a quiet time of day when you could otherwise have shot straight round, but in the grand scheme of things that's nothing. Yes, coming out of York or along the A1237, you might get held up for three or four minutes in the evening rush hour ... but again, compared with other routes out of York, that is nothing. I would be delighted if the A19 and A1079 flowed as well up to and across the GSJs with the A64 as the A1036 does up to the roundabout.

Compare those very small delays with the queues of 30 minutes or more that are common where the road is singled, and it is painfully obvious that doing any major works to the A64 other than dualling between Hopgrove and Malton is just plain moronic. A GSJ would be nice, don't get me wrong, but dual-carriageway has to be the priority.

The only way I could excuse building a GSJ at Hopgrove first is if it was going to be quickly followed by dualling eastwards, and the traffic modelling showed that it would cause fewer delays to build the GSJ first before the dual-carriageway released suppressed demand.

[NICK 647063]

Well £250 million is quite an amount and I guess would pay for a Hopgrove GSJ and dualling to at least Barton hill but I can't see it going as far as completing Crambeck to Malton but that section will then cause problems and I'm sure could be dealt with its only a very short section!

I think they seem obsessed with this expressway thing so won't leave the roundabout at hopgrove, I wonder how this will tie in to the FERRA site access at sand hutton which is having a large flyover built in the next few years along the lines of bilbrough top it will look strange over a S2 road..

anyway these schemes are safeguarded so we are told as the money is allocated lets see!

[jackal]

Never thought I'd see sabristi complaining about excess grade separation!

[Rillington]

Indeed.

They should have built a GSJ at Hop Grove when they carried out those so-called 'improvements' a few years ago.

[Stevie D]

Never thought I'd see sabristi complaining about excess grade separation!

Not complaining about excess grade separation per se, but about badly ordered priorities. You do the best that need doing most badly first, that's obvious. And d/c between Hopgrove and Malton with CGSJs at 3 or 4 key junctions along the way should be a much higher priority than Hopgrove itself.

[Rillington]

I think that both are a priority. It would seem rather odd to dual northeast of York without removing the bottleneck that is Hop Grove.

[Mark Hewitt]

I think that both are a priority. It would seem rather odd to dual northeast of York without removing the bottleneck that is Hop Grove.

But hasn't it always been said that Hopgrove isn't a bottleneck in itself, it's the drop to S2. It would make sense to dual first and see how it goes.

[Rillington]

The reason I view Hop Grove as a bottleneck is because the traffic lights and roundabout mean that every driver has to stop/all but stop at Hop Grove due to the traffic lights and by having a GSJ for the A64 at that point the traffic would not be forceably stopped at that point regardless of how much traffic is on the road and therefore overall traffic flow would be improved.

I do accept the point that the road becoming single carriageway immediately after Hop Grove does not help. This is why I would hope that both the GSJ at Hop Grove and dualling to Malton happens asap, and as part of the same project.

[mehere]

I would be tempted to widen to.three lanes going eastbound from the A19 round to Hope grove. Have central York traffic on the left most lane would would be the lane drop back to Two lanes that would carry on left up as sing the roundabout and round merging with what should be a widened A1036 maybe S3.
The remainder of the A64 would cross a full Gsj Flyover onto A D2 with full width sidestrips like you have in Ireland on the N routes.
Toward the First section of D2 heading uphill to Malton.
I'd also add a Third Lane uphill at Whitwell on the hull. Plus a long slip road for the road to the left there.
Again Eastbound there I'd make the exit from The Abbey a long third lane merge going down hill.
This should eliminate the old folks n locals who insist on.pullimg out at very low speeds not to mention there being no real room to get up.to speed. Hence many accidents.
Back at Hopgrove I'd have a three lane roundabout with two to go round to the A1237 and one to me the in with the free flow down into York.
Coming from the A1237 between the Asia roundabout and the Hopgrove roundabout I'd add an extra lane making two southbound lanes. With strong get in lane warnings becoming a solid white line ad you approach the roundabout.
Making the left most lane free flow round to the GSJ and onto the Gsj D2 toward Malton
Again I'd make this a long 3rd lane for a good mile to.allow merging.
I'd Close the Stockton on Forrest direct access and instead build a flyover and lilo junction.
Back at Hopgrove A1237 traffic going west would have three approach lanes at the roundabout middle straight onto the A64 to go East only.
Right to go to York.
But I'd make sure of good get in lane signage. Half the problems are down to nobody having lane control.
Plus it might even be worth making that a Gsj as well if possible .
Or traffic light controlled.
Going west in the long term I'd look at adding a third lane all the way to the A1 (M).
Though you'd need longer slip roads for the A19 and A1 (M)
But it really ought to be fully D2 all the way to a Bypassed Scarborough.

[NICK 647063]

Well this project has a sum of £250 million and if we compare that to the A1 leeming to Barton motorway upgrade which is 12 miles of new motorway, side roads, new bridges and a totally new GSJ at Catterick central! with a price tag of £360 million.......

So I would hope for £110 million less we can easily dual the whole Malton to York section which would be a total of around 8 miles of new D2 with Hopgrove to Barton hill and welburn to Malton making up the sections and a GSJ hopgrove, does anyone else think this is doable for £250 million?

Do also remember that with an improved Hopgrove and dualling east North lane (the cut through between the A1237 and A64E) would be closed so hopgrove would need to allow for an extra 8,000-10,000 VPD turning to and from the A64 to A1237...

[Rillington]

I don't see why North Lane would have to be closed. Instead improving this road/link with the A64 could be incorporated into any improvement scheme and this would take further pressure off the Hop Grove roundabout.

[NICK 647063]

I don't see why North Lane would have to be closed. Instead improving this road/link with the A64 could be incorporated into any improvement scheme and this would take further pressure off the Hop Grove roundabout.

Two reasons really it would Join too near the on slip road from the A1237 to A64E and as widening would be to the North of the existing carriageway there would be no room for any slip roads due to houses on North lane and a house on the other side of the A64, for a link to work it would need an new bridge to let A64 westbound traffic turn into North lane so for the added expense its easier to send people to an improved Hopgrove Junction.

[Stevie D]

I think that both are a priority. It would seem rather odd to dual northeast of York without removing the bottleneck that is Hop Grove.

Hopgrove is not a bottleneck. Even if the A64 was HQDC all the way to Scab, Hopgrove wouldn't be a bottleneck. It may slow you down, but that's not the same thing – a bottleneck is a restriction on capacity that causes congestion because there is too much traffic trying to get through the restriction. If the roads leading away from Hopgrove were free-flowing, it is very unlikely that there would be any significant reduction in capacity resulting from the roundabout itself, particularly since it was signalised. The delays people would suffer because of the roundabout at Hopgrove would be minimal, usually less than a minute, which is why it should be a relatively low priority compared with D2 to Malton and bypasses at Rillington and Sherburn.

[Rillington]

So which of the below improvements are actually confirmed?

1. Creating a GSJ for A64 through traffic at Hop Grove.

2. Dualling the A64 between Hop Grove and Malton.

3. Rillington bypass.

4. Sherburn bypass.

[wrinkly]

only the first, as far as I know.

[NICK 647063]

The first is confirmed which is a GSJ at hopgrove but the funding is £250 million and like its being said dualling is also included but at this time we don't know how much, likely to be Malton to York completely......as for rillington bypass well no mention I'm afraid it shall remain as it is.

[NICK 647063]

I was Just looking at details of the A11 elveden scheme which for £105 million saw a 9 mile section widened to D2, a 3 mile village bypass and a new Junction and underpass ect, so for more than double that you would hope £250 million could make the Hopgrove a GSJ and fully dual to Malton!