A77: Ayr to Stranraer

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What should become of the A77 between Ayr & Stranraer?

Motorway
21
14%
Grade-Seperated D2
47
32%
At-Grade D2
23
16%
WS2/S3/S4/S2+1 etc.
24
16%
Keep it as it is (ie. S2)
10
7%
Mixture of the above
20
14%
Other (please state)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 146

The Deuce
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by The Deuce »

KeithW wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 23:27
clc wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 21:46 I don’t disagree. However, it doesn’t change the fact that Boris made a promise that is not in his gift to deliver on. If the Scottish Government decides to stand its ground then there’s nothing he can do about it.
Well the main reason it has low passenger numbers is that the ferries no longer leave from Stranraer but use Cairnryan which doesnt have a rail link.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-59262276

What happened to Stranraer after the ferries left?

By Giancarlo Rinaldi
South Scotland reporter, BBC Scotland news website

Published 21 November


Stena Line moved its operations the few miles from Stranraer to Cairnryan in November 2011
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KeithW
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by KeithW »

The Deuce wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:37 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-59262276

What happened to Stranraer after the ferries left?

By Giancarlo Rinaldi
South Scotland reporter, BBC Scotland news website

Published 21 November


Stena Line moved its operations the few miles from Stranraer to Cairnryan in November 2011
You know I rather like Stranraer but it never seemed to have much character and I usually end up in Portpatrick.

The big problem for the rail service is the station is stuck out at the end of the pier 1/2 mile from the town centre. There was money allocated for a new transport hub which was supposedly ringfenced but that fence turned out to permeable and the money was used for something else.

There is no bus from station to town and only a small rather unsafe parking area so arrive there on a wet day with all the taxis in use and its not a nice walk especially if you have luggage. Start here - note the nice ramp for wheelchairs.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.90860 ... 8192?hl=en

Its a pity its spoiled by the path you end up on. Not enough lights, no CCTV and a pretty poor surface.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.90692 ... 8192?hl=en
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Chris Bertram
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Chris Bertram »

KeithW wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 15:45
The Deuce wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:37 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-59262276

What happened to Stranraer after the ferries left?

By Giancarlo Rinaldi
South Scotland reporter, BBC Scotland news website

Published 21 November


Stena Line moved its operations the few miles from Stranraer to Cairnryan in November 2011
You know I rather like Stranraer but it never seemed to have much character and I usually end up in Portpatrick.

The big problem for the rail service is the station is stuck out at the end of the pier 1/2 mile from the town centre. There was money allocated for a new transport hub which was supposedly ringfenced but that fence turned out to permeable and the money was used for something else.

There is no bus from station to town and only a small rather unsafe parking area so arrive there on a wet day with all the taxis in use and its not a nice walk especially if you have luggage. Start here - note the nice ramp for wheelchairs.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.90860 ... 8192?hl=en

Its a pity its spoiled by the path you end up on. Not enough lights, no CCTV and a pretty poor surface.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.90692 ... 8192?hl=en
There was a Stranraer Town station, but this closed to passengers in 1966, and the lines to it have now all been lifted, but it would be much more convenient for local residents now the ferries have gone.
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c2R
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by c2R »

Hopefully one day there will be further development in the area - the station and its surrounds are very sorry - I did end up getting soaked once there on the walk down that road in the dark!
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snookes
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by snookes »

KeithW wrote: Sun Nov 28, 2021 20:09
As I recall the A77 Maybole bypass is due to open this year. That will make a big difference , if they bypass Girvan, Craigiemains and Ballantrae then its pretty much job done. AADF south of Maybole is around 8k and a bypass of the rest is more about safety and the environment than congestion except for Girvan which is a pain and must be worse for the people who live there.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.24409 ... 8192?hl=en
Yes, the last time I was down by the bypass the signs are still up saying Opening Summer 2021!

I have heard two stories - one says open before Christmas, other in new year.

There are some videos on YouTube.

https://youtu.be/wuCfgOX8qUU
(North end)

https://youtu.be/ulfuKHHWaYI
(South end)
clc
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by clc »

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Helvellyn
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Helvellyn »

Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 17:03 There was a Stranraer Town station, but this closed to passengers in 1966, and the lines to it have now all been lifted, but it would be much more convenient for local residents now the ferries have gone.
The site's still undeveloped as far as I can tell from Streetview but it's not all that much closer to the town centre.
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Euan
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

clc wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:18 Maybole Bypass opened yesterday:

https://twitter.com/transcotland/status ... 94242?s=21
OpenStreetMap appears to already have been updated and is showing the anomalous B77 number along the old A77 through the town. The number looks more "official" now.
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Nathan_A_RF
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Nathan_A_RF »

Is the B77 number an error or actually official? B-roads in Great Britain are restricted to minimum 3 digits, no?
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wrinkly
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by wrinkly »

Has anyone complained to Transport Scotland about this? Birmingham eventually had to capitulate over the B38.
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KeithW
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by KeithW »

wrinkly wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 22:39 Has anyone complained to Transport Scotland about this? Birmingham eventually had to capitulate over the B38.
They could of course choose to number it the C37 :)

Seriously I know B roads have 3 or more numbers but is there anything that mandates this or is it just custom and practice ?
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Owain
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Owain »

Nathan_A_RF wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 20:33 Is the B77 number an error or actually official? B-roads in Great Britain are restricted to minimum 3 digits, no?
It could be both - officials do make mistakes, like the B38.
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wrinkly
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by wrinkly »

KeithW wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 00:40
wrinkly wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 22:39 Has anyone complained to Transport Scotland about this? Birmingham eventually had to capitulate over the B38.
They could of course choose to number it the C37 :)

Seriously I know B roads have 3 or more numbers but is there anything that mandates this or is it just custom and practice ?
I'm sure it's not a law, but it's a convention that has survived for 100 years and the only other known violation was overcome.
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Bryn666
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Bryn666 »

wrinkly wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:11
KeithW wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 00:40
wrinkly wrote: Tue Feb 22, 2022 22:39 Has anyone complained to Transport Scotland about this? Birmingham eventually had to capitulate over the B38.
They could of course choose to number it the C37 :)

Seriously I know B roads have 3 or more numbers but is there anything that mandates this or is it just custom and practice ?
I'm sure it's not a law, but it's a convention that has survived for 100 years and the only other known violation was overcome.
Not sure if road numbering in Scotland is a devolved competency, maybe worth raising with Transport Scotland. It really should just be the B742.
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Chris5156
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Chris5156 »

Bryn666 wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 13:52
wrinkly wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 12:11
KeithW wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 00:40They could of course choose to number it the C37 :)

Seriously I know B roads have 3 or more numbers but is there anything that mandates this or is it just custom and practice ?
I'm sure it's not a law, but it's a convention that has survived for 100 years and the only other known violation was overcome.
Not sure if road numbering in Scotland is a devolved competency, maybe worth raising with Transport Scotland. It really should just be the B742.
Transport is a devolved matter, so road numbering in Scotland is entirely within the control of the Scottish Government. That said, they haven't actually made any changes to road numbering policy since devolution, so in practice they remain bound by the same rules as England and Wales.

I'd say it's worth at least an enquiry to Transport Scotland.
clc
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by clc »

I’ve driven the new bypass a few times now. What a joy it is not having to go through Maybole. There’s more guaranteed overtaking southbound than there is northbound. However, there’s also opportunistic overtaking northbound on one of the 2+1 sections which will be useful when the temporary 40mph speed limit is removed.

In terms of future projects my immediate priorities would be two schemes which were previously in Transport Scotland’s programme:-

Dowhill to Chapeldonan WS2+1
Ardwell to Slockenray WS2+1

http://www.a77safetygroup.com/index.cfm/page/32/

After that, I’d like to see a realignment and climbing lane between Ballantrae and Auchencrosh. This intervention is specifically mentioned in STPR2.

Bigger projects such as dualling and grade separation around Ayr don’t seem likely to be considered until after A9 dualling is complete so I’m not expecting much progress with that.
swissferry
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by swissferry »

Reply from Transport Scotland regarding the B77:
It may be helpful if I firstly clarify that there is no reason that a two digit B-road classification cannot be
used in Scotland. Responsibility of assignation of road numbers to side roads is a matter for the
relevant road authority, in this case Ayrshire Road Alliance, not Transport Scotland.
An outline design for road signs was discussed with Ayrshire Road Alliance during project
development, which included an assumption that the de-trunked A77 would be renumbered as “B77”.
Subsequently, following award of the contract to design and construct the works, a further consultation
was undertaken with Ayrshire Roads Alliance by Wills Bros Civil Engineering Ltd in respect of the
detailed design of road signs, which also included reference to the de-trunked A77 as “B77”. Our
records do not indicate that Ayrshire Roads Alliance made any comment in response to either
consultation in respect of this assumption, which was taken as confirmation that this renumbering
should be adopted.
I am awaiting reply from Ayrshire Roads Alliance.
swissferry
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by swissferry »

swissferry wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 19:25 I am awaiting reply from Ayrshire Roads Alliance.
Four month later...
...received these two replies today:
Apologies for the delay in responding to your enquiry.

It should be noted that road signage is a devolved matter, and there is nothing to prevent a B-class road being given a two digit classification in Scotland. This matter has been reviewed by both the Ayrshire Roads Alliance and Transport Scotland, and neither organisation has found any issue with the chosen numbering of the B77.

We will monitor our corporate enquiries system for any complaints in relation to driver confusion with respect to numbering – if this is found to be an issue then we will revisit the matter.

We trust this helps to clarify in relation to your enquiry.

Kind regards,
Graeme Senior
Team Leader - Traffic Ayrshire Roads Alliance
I refer to your email regarding the de-trunked section of the A77 through Maybole South Ayrshire.

Ayrshire Roads Alliance discussed the classification numbering with Transport Scotland who had no issues with the de-trunked section classified as the B77.

Ayrshire Roads Alliance have no plans to amend the number classification.

Regards
Kevin Braidwood
Head of Roads - Ayrshire Roads Alliance
Original post to Ayrshire Road Alliance
Dear Sir/Madam, On 18 March I had the pleasure of driving on the Maybole Bypass and appreciated the new road. I was surprised to see signs from either end of the bypass which refer to the route into Maybole as the B77. All other B roads in Scotland are 3 or 4 digits. The only two digit B roads in the British Isles are on the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands and Northern Ireland. I contacted Transport Scotland about this. They informed me there is no reason that a two digit B-road classification cannot be used in Scotland however the responsibility of assigning road numbers to side roads was a matter for the relevant road authority, in this case Ayrshire Road Alliance. According to https://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/ind ... lly_Oak%29 a similar situation occurred in England where the non-standard number B38 was seemingly allocated to the former A38 in Selly Oak, Birmingham upon opening of the bypass in 2011. The road linked the A38 to itself. In December 2011, the Department for Transport confirmed they were aware of the abnormal numbering, as B roads are three or four digit numbers long, and were discussing the issue with Birmingham City Council. In early 2012, all the signs were patched with B384 patches. As this is the only two digit B road in Scotland do you plan to renumber it? It could be renumber B770 or B772 as these road numbers are not currently in use.

From the SABRE Wiki: B38 %28Selly Oak%29 :

The non-standard number B38 was seemingly allocated to the former A38 in Selly Oak, Birmingham upon opening of the bypass in 2011. The road linked the A38 to itself, starting by Tesco then climbing Bristol Road under the Cross City Line to end at the Selly Oak Triangle.

In December 2011, the Department for Transport confirmed they were aware of the abnormal numbering, as B roads are three or four digit numbers long,

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