A77: Ayr to Stranraer

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply

What should become of the A77 between Ayr & Stranraer?

Motorway
21
14%
Grade-Seperated D2
47
32%
At-Grade D2
23
16%
WS2/S3/S4/S2+1 etc.
24
16%
Keep it as it is (ie. S2)
10
7%
Mixture of the above
20
14%
Other (please state)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 146

User avatar
Gavin A74
Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2005 20:52
Location: Kilmarnock
Contact:

A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Gavin A74 »

The A77 is the main road between Glasgow and Belfast however between Ayr and Stranraer (A good 60-or-so miles) is well below any uselfull standard. It is a poor-quality S2 and really needs to be upgarded.

NOTE: Poll does not include Ayr bypass (ie. between A719 and A79)
Last edited by Gavin A74 on Sat Nov 10, 2007 19:10, edited 1 time in total.
sheeldz
Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 18:57
Location: North Lakes
Contact:

Post by sheeldz »

Should probably be just Dualled properly, with hard shoulders. However, this probably mean it would be a Scottish standard of motorway. However this would mean that the bit from the M77 as it stands to Ayr should also be Motorway. It would be a large Motorway...
I host an ambient, electronic and avant garde music podcast. Don't say I didn't warn you.
http://www.mixcloud.com/sheeldz/
@mondaygraveyard
User avatar
scynthius726
Member
Posts: 3687
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 13:27
Location: Cambuslang

Post by scynthius726 »

sheeldz wrote:Should probably be just Dualled properly, with hard shoulders. However, this probably mean it would be a Scottish standard of motorway.
Do you mean with at-grade jucntions when you say "just dualled properly"? Scottish motorway standard may be below the rest of the UK but it doesn't include at-grade junctions as far as I know...
Member of the out-of-touch, liberal, metropolitan, establishment elite. Apparently.
User avatar
haymansafc
Member
Posts: 4808
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 16:52
Location: Ellesmere Port, Cheshire

Post by haymansafc »

Personally, I feel a good quality D2 with decent GSJ's would be enough for this section of road. At the moment, it's a relatively poor S2 and does need a decent upgrade. I feel a motorway would be taking things a little too far. I'd even happily accept a D2 with at grade junctions with provisions for full GSJ's if required in the future for the first step. Realistically, I think an at grade D2 will be about the best to hope for.
sheeldz
Member
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 18:57
Location: North Lakes
Contact:

Post by sheeldz »

scynthius726 wrote:
sheeldz wrote:Should probably be just Dualled properly, with hard shoulders. However, this probably mean it would be a Scottish standard of motorway.
Do you mean with at-grade jucntions when you say "just dualled properly"? Scottish motorway standard may be below the rest of the UK but it doesn't include at-grade junctions as far as I know...
No no, I meant with GSJ. I suppose that means above Scottish Dualing standards. Ha.
I host an ambient, electronic and avant garde music podcast. Don't say I didn't warn you.
http://www.mixcloud.com/sheeldz/
@mondaygraveyard
User avatar
flyingscot
Member
Posts: 3837
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 17:24
Location: Paisley

Post by flyingscot »

Should be D2 till south of Ayr then an properly fixed single carraigeway with overtaking areas.
To come second is to be the first of the losers.
User avatar
Truvelo
Member
Posts: 17456
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 21:10
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Post by Truvelo »

Being as this road serves a remote backwater although D2 GSJ would be nice I don't think it would be money well spent. Instead the best compromise would be WS2 with LILO junctions and GSJs at the more important junctions.

Alternating overtaking lanes won't do as there's potential for frustration when stuck behind traffic on the single lane side. Also the advantage of two wide lanes vs S2+1 is to allow opportunistic overtaking so preventing a long line of cars hogging the overtaking lane.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
User avatar
SouthWest Philip
Member
Posts: 3473
Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2002 19:35
Location: Evesham, Worcestershire

Post by SouthWest Philip »

Truvelo wrote:Also the advantage of two wide lanes vs S2+1 is to allow opportunistic overtaking so preventing a long line of cars hogging the overtaking lane.
WS2 is all very well until the road becomes remotely busy, like the A303 Ilminster bypass, after which point it just becomes dangerous. (I know, no such thing as dangerous roads, only dangerous drivers.)

I think an S2+1, or a dual carriageway, would be preferable even if it had a few roundabouts along the way. I suppose something like the A43 between the M40 and M1, but without the dominent flows crossing over each other at one of the roundabouts!
User avatar
PeterA5145
Member
Posts: 25347
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2002 00:19
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
Contact:

Post by PeterA5145 »

Truvelo wrote:Alternating overtaking lanes won't do as there's potential for frustration when stuck behind traffic on the single lane side. Also the advantage of two wide lanes vs S2+1 is to allow opportunistic overtaking so preventing a long line of cars hogging the overtaking lane.
Surely the best solution would be the "permissive" form of S2+1 (still seen in some places) that gives one direction priority (usually uphill) but still allows overtaking in the other direction.

How busy is the A77 south of Ayr anyway? Apart from the ferry traffic I would have thought it was fairly quiet - Maybole, Girvan, Ballantrae and Stranraer between them can't have more than 25,000 people.

Possibly another option would be to build dual-carriageway bypasses of Maybole, Girvan and Ballantrae to provide at least some overtaking opportunities.
“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A. Heinlein
User avatar
Dave908
Member
Posts: 1861
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 19:02
Location: Sunny St Helens

A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Dave908 »

Make it a Grade separated D2 in the parts where needed, and have a mixture of D2 and S2 on the less busy sections
User avatar
Kenny1975
Member
Posts: 5052
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 21:19
Location: Ayrshire

Post by Kenny1975 »

PeterA5145 wrote:How busy is the A77 south of Ayr anyway? Apart from the ferry traffic I would have thought it was fairly quiet - Maybole, Girvan, Ballantrae and Stranraer between them can't have more than 25,000 people.
Not sure south of Girvan, but from Ayr to Girvan can get busy.

Even though not huge populations there is a lot of decent sized villages and a few towns, and Ayr for a lot of people acts as the principle location to work in. There is a lot of people commuting this route between Girvan and Ayr.

Ferry traffic can make the road very busy, even at 9 o clock at night can see a large convoy of HGV's.

Not sure about from Girvan to Stranrear, but imagine can be very busy at times considering Stranrear is one of the large ferry crossings to NI.

I think the M77 should continue from Kilmarnock to Ayr, the new WHitletts roundabout i think was a waste of cash, the junction should be grade seperarated due to the large amount of traffic and the fact with housebuilding and retail parks, lesuire centres next to this roundabout just going to get a lot busier.

Id say D2 from Ayr to Girvan with roundabouts rather than grade seperated junctions. Well for the main junctions like for access to Maybole, Girvan etc..

The rest of the route upgrade the existing S2 route try to remove the worst bends etc....
User avatar
coasterjunkie
Member
Posts: 2301
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 17:59
Location: Woodsetts, South Yorkshire

Post by coasterjunkie »

I have never driven this stretch of road, but from what you say I would have thought it deserves Dto be 2 with GSJs.

Andy

P.S. this is my 1000th post BTW! Go me! :msncake:
Andy

If you've got it, a truck brought it!
User avatar
ABeaton
Member
Posts: 1960
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 21:58
Location: Dartford, Kent

Post by ABeaton »

Long Post Alert :!:

I posted for Motorway. Infact I have done a stirp map of the exteded M77 albeit into Belfast.

Like this.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Dartford, the town with 4 by-passes.
User avatar
mark74m
Member
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 15:28
Location: Edinburgh

Post by mark74m »

My heart says motorway (which I voted for), but my head says dual carriageway with some GSJ.

Realistically, if they did do something with this road, I can't imagine the standard being any higher than the A90 Perth to Aberdeen road which is dualled for it's entire length with the important junctions being GSJ but with all the minor ones being at-grade.

Personally, I've always felt that road should be full GSJ or motorway, but that's another topic...
User avatar
PishedPaul
Member
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:36
Location: Gorgie, Edinburgh
Contact:

Post by PishedPaul »

I would like a dual carridgeway as a minimum - to the standard of the old A74 at least (with at grade junctions). Don't think the traffic levels would justify GSJ's.

I think it would be more likely though that they would choose to upgrade the existing road from Dumfries to Stranraer as beeing cheaper and easier.

Also need to remember that feries will no longer be leaving from Stranraer but will in future leave from Cairnryan.
m80
Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:38

Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by m80 »

Transport Minister views progress of A77 on South Ayrshire tour
13 July 2011

The completion of a £5.5m construction scheme will significantly improve safety on a key Ayrshire route said Transport Minister Keith Brown today.


Transport Minister Keith Brown visits
the site
The A77 Parkend – Bennane scheme, now open to traffic, provides dedicated overtaking opportunities in both directions across almost  2 miles (1.8 miles/ 3km), just north of Ballantrae. 

The Minister visited the site as one of a number of engagements in South Ayrshire, also meeting with Adam Ingram, MSP, at Maybole to discuss the bypass.

Transport Minister Keith Brown said:

“I am pleased to see the completion of these works on this key route, which links our west coast ports to the rest of Scotland, and is a clear example of our commitment to the A77.

“Through this investment and these improved overtaking opportunities, we are ensuring more reliable and safer journeys for local communities and tourists, as well as heavy goods traffic.

“This supports long term sustainable economic growth across south west Scotland and beyond.

“We also recognise the importance of the Maybole Bypass to both Maybole residents and businesses as well as the wider links to the Loch Ryan Ports and will look for opportunities to progress it when funding becomes available.”

The A77 links the west coast ports to the rest of Scotland and this project is one of a number of upgrades on this key route.

The contract to build this Transport Scotland funded project was awarded to RJ McLeod (Contractors) Ltd.

This scheme is part of £60 million of planned investment along the A77 and A75, and complements £35 million already invested on these routes.

The 86 mile long A77 is a main link for south west communities and businesses, and this section of the route carries up to 3000 vehicles a day.

http://mobile.transportscotland.gov.uk/ ... completion
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7539
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by jackal »

If a motorway bridge between Stranraer and Northern Ireland were to be built (and there was some talk of such a thing relatively recently) it would maybe make most sense for the motorway on the Scottish side to extend to the A702 junction on the M74 (or thereabouts).

This is obviously a less direct route to Glasgow than simply linking up with the existing M77 would be, but it would have two key benefits: (1) traffic to Edinburgh and the North bypasses Glasgow; and (2) you also provide a fairly direct route to England.

Of course, ideally you would build two motorways (an M77 to Glasgow and an M75 to Gretna) but if there wasn't the budget for that it would make more sense to come up with a compromise solution than it would to concentrate on one route and abandon the other.
User avatar
si404
Member
Posts: 10885
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 13:25
Location: Amersham

Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by si404 »

jackal wrote:If a motorway bridge between Stranraer and Northern Ireland were to be built (and there was some talk of such a thing relatively recently) it would maybe make most sense for the motorway on the Scottish side to extend to the A702 junction on the M74 (or thereabouts).
There's some hills in the way of that! You'll end up either going near Dumfries or Cumnock to reach the '74, so you may as well just build the M77. The A75 could just be a decent DC.

If it weren't for the hills, an Edinburgh - Stranraer M7 would have been a nice way to link to the Stranraer - Larne bridge (linking to a Larne - Airport - Moira - Newry motorway in NI). Of course 220 miles of motorway, including a 20 mile bridge wouldn't have come cheap!
"“Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations" Thomas Jefferson
m80
Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:38

Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by m80 »

Having driven from Ayr to Cairnryan a few times recently and with my realistic head on I'd settle for: dualling / grade separation around Ayr as far as Maybole; Maybole northern bypass with climbing lanes; Girvan bypass with overtaking opportunity; and a few other WS2+1 sections south of Turnberry including Dowhill to Chapeldonan and Ardwell to Slockenray and a couple more south of Ballantrae.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7539
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by jackal »

si404 wrote:There's some hills in the way of that!
No more so than there were hills in the way of the A74(M).
m80 wrote:Having driven from Ayr to Cairnryan a few times recently and with my realistic head on I'd settle for: dualling / grade separation around Ayr as far as Maybole; Maybole northern bypass with climbing lanes; Girvan bypass with overtaking opportunity; and a few other WS2+1 sections south of Turnberry including Dowhill to Chapeldonan and Ardwell to Slockenray and a couple more south of Ballantrae.
The majority of the Ayr bypass should be dualled and grade separated. However, traffic falls off significantly at the A713 junction (the DfT say from 22,000 to 15,000) and further still to 12,000 at the A79 junction. At those volumes grade separation at the A79 junction can't really be justified, and S2+1 would be reasonable between Ayr and Maybole. I broadly agree with the suggestions for further south.
Post Reply