A77: Ayr to Stranraer

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What should become of the A77 between Ayr & Stranraer?

Motorway
21
14%
Grade-Seperated D2
47
32%
At-Grade D2
23
16%
WS2/S3/S4/S2+1 etc.
24
16%
Keep it as it is (ie. S2)
10
7%
Mixture of the above
20
14%
Other (please state)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 146

Glenn A
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Glenn A »

The A75 was upgraded in the late eighties and early nineties, when serious bottlenecks like Annan and Dumfries were by passed. More dualling would have been nice, but when the ferry traffic isn't around, it's reasonably quiet and you can make decent progress, which probably explains why most of the road is S2.
clc
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by clc »

I drove the A77 today and was shocked at the condition of the WS2 section at Glen App. Huge craters the likes of which I’ve not seen on a trunk road. Needs fixed urgently.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by clc »

Maybole Bypass preferred bidder selected:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeanef1msp/s ... 8884789248

Read the follow on tweets and you’ll see confirmation that dualling the A77 is being looked at as part of strategic review.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Altnabreac »

clc wrote: Thu Jan 10, 2019 00:15 Maybole Bypass preferred bidder selected:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeanef1msp/s ... 8884789248

Read the follow on tweets and you’ll see confirmation that dualling the A77 is being looked at as part of strategic review.
Interesting.

I'd be happy with something like this:
Dualling Ayr bypass to River Doon
WS2+1 Minishant bypass
WS2+1 Kirkoswald bypass
S2 Girvan bypass
Some kind of better alignment Ballantrae - Smyrton
Dualling Smyrton - Cairnryan Stena
Dualling Cairnryan P&O - A751
Improved A751 junction
A751 dualled
Improved A75 - A751 junction

Ideally you'd want to see a Ballantrae bypass as well but I can't really see an easy way of doing it short of tunnelling through the hill to the East.
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Euan
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

At the very least they should provide more overtaking opportunities along the rural parts of the road. Bypasses for the smaller villages may not quite be justifiable just yet, although a Girvan bypass would make a big difference if some way around the town could be found. It seems difficult to find a way around shortening the long diversions in the event of the southern section of the road being closed, although the distance across to the A714 is only modest in comparison to the lengthy diversions up in the Highlands when certain roads are shut.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Glenn A »

Girvan and Maybole definitely need by passes, but as Stranraer has been downgraded as a port in favour of Cairnryan, how about renumbering the A751 the A75 to meet the A77 north of Stranraer and improving this, while the A75 to Stranraer becomes A751.
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Gav
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Gav »

the A77 needs to be reviewed and upgraded, no motorway but partial dualling, not enough traffic to warrant that sort of money, but it does need a lot of money spent on it. A77 should be dualled past Ayr to at least Girvan. Id then have the A77 run inland in a more direct line away from the coast with crawling lanes on all uphill sections. Wide carriageway aswell to improve line of sight and provide a safer road than what is currently there.
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Owain
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Owain »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 19:30 Girvan and Maybole definitely need by passes, but as Stranraer has been downgraded as a port in favour of Cairnryan, how about renumbering the A751 the A75 to meet the A77 north of Stranraer and improving this, while the A75 to Stranraer becomes A751.
If any renumbering were to take place, I'd send the A77 down the A751 to end at the current T-junction (replaced by a roundabout) with the A75. Both roads would be dualled from that meeting point to Ayr and Gretna respectively.
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Glenn A
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Glenn A »

Owain wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 21:14
Glenn A wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 19:30 Girvan and Maybole definitely need by passes, but as Stranraer has been downgraded as a port in favour of Cairnryan, how about renumbering the A751 the A75 to meet the A77 north of Stranraer and improving this, while the A75 to Stranraer becomes A751.
The A75 and A77 to Stranraer are both green-signed primary routes; the A751 link road is not.

If any renumbering were to take place, I'd send the A77 down the A751 to end at the current T-junction (replaced by a roundabout) with the A75. Both roads would be dualled from that meeting point to Ayr and Gretna respectively.
I would think the same, but is the money available? The A75 improvements 30 years ago, while a huge improvement on the old road, seemed to be done on the cheap and more D2 sections were needed. Yet when the lorries aren't around, the A75 is fairly quiet.
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c2R
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by c2R »

I'm pretty sure the A751 is green-signed and primary...
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by AndyB »

The only white signs on the A751 are the ADS approaching the A75 and the flag sign at the A75 junction. All other signage I can think of is green, including both RCS, and it has Transport Scotland "Maintained by Amey signs." I think it must have been upsigned when Stranraer was downgraded.
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Owain
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Owain »

Glenn A wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 21:17
Owain wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 21:14 If any renumbering were to take place, I'd send the A77 down the A751 to end at the current T-junction (replaced by a roundabout) with the A75. Both roads would be dualled from that meeting point to Ayr and Gretna respectively.
I would think the same, but is the money available?
In the UK the answer is usually "no", because hardly anybody (outside SABRE) wants to pay for a proper infrastructure.
c2R wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 21:31 I'm pretty sure the A751 is green-signed and primary...
AndyB wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 21:34 The only white signs on the A751 are the ADS approaching the A75 and the flag sign at the A75 junction. All other signage I can think of is green, including both RCS, and it has Transport Scotland "Maintained by Amey signs." I think it must have been upsigned when Stranraer was downgraded.
You're both right. It appears to have been upgraded at some point.

I edited my post after checking, but not before it had been quoted!
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Euan
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

The A751 is primary and is a trunk road maintained by Transport Scotland, but most maps do not show it as primary. The road will have become more important ever since the ferries over to Ireland relocated from Stranraer to Cairnryan as their main Scottish port.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Glenn A »

Euan wrote: Sat Jan 12, 2019 22:14 The A751 is primary and is a trunk road maintained by Transport Scotland, but most maps do not show it as primary. The road will have become more important ever since the ferries over to Ireland relocated from Stranraer to Cairnryan as their main Scottish port.
Maybe making it D2 could be an idea.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by AndyB »

It’s not really long enough to be worth it in terms of how soon you need to be back in lane 1 towards Dumfries and lane 2 towards Cairnryan.
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Euan
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

There would be little point in dualling the A751 given that the A77 south of Prestwick and almost the entire length of the A75 is currently single carriageway - you would have an excellent road that is completely isolated from other similar roads.
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Berk
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Berk »

Euan wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 18:49 There would be little point in dualling the A751 given that the A77 south of Prestwick and almost the entire length of the A75 is currently single carriageway - you would have an excellent road that is completely isolated from other similar roads.
I would say, build a roundabout, and extend the A77 along the A751 until it terminates at the A75.

The A751 number can be allocated to the road from Innermessan through to Portpatrick.
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KeithW
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by KeithW »

Glenn A wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:34 Maybe making it D2 could be an idea.
This is NOT an overloaded road. AADF is under 2k and 90% of that traffic happens in the mad half hour after the ferry starts unloading. The reality is that there are 6 ferry arrivals a day with a max of 650 cars or 110 HGV's .

I have had occasion to curse the A75 and A77 but the A751 has never been an issue.
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Euan
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

KeithW wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 20:07
Glenn A wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:34 Maybe making it D2 could be an idea.
This is NOT an overloaded road. AADF is under 2k and 90% of that traffic happens in the mad half hour after the ferry starts unloading. The reality is that there are 6 ferry arrivals a day with a max of 650 cars or 110 HGV's .

I have had occasion to curse the A75 and A77 but the A751 has never been an issue.
Would it not be closer to 12 ferry arrivals each day, as in around 6 arrivals each for Stena Line from Belfast and P&O from Larne? Even then the traffic heading south along the A77 after leaving the ferry would only result in a short spike in traffic levels after each arrival, so the A751 can probably do as it is without being dualled.
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nirs
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by nirs »

The A77 is a terrible drive. However if the Scottish government's aim is to improve strategic flows, which presumably means traffic going to and from Ireland, I would suggest that subsidising the recently-axed ferry service from Troon would be a better use of money since the A77 is already dual-carriageway from there to Glasgow. The Troon ferry bypasses the whole S2 section, but has never attracted the traffic to make it sustainable. I wonder how that could change if the ferry was cheaper?
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