A77: Ayr to Stranraer

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What should become of the A77 between Ayr & Stranraer?

Motorway
21
14%
Grade-Seperated D2
47
32%
At-Grade D2
23
16%
WS2/S3/S4/S2+1 etc.
24
16%
Keep it as it is (ie. S2)
10
7%
Mixture of the above
20
14%
Other (please state)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 146

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KeithW
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by KeithW »

Euan wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 08:15
It depends on where you are going in Great Britain. If you are going anywhere in Scotland or the northern half of England then the quickest crossing would be to Cairnryan from either Belfast or Larne. The crossing to Holyhead from Dublin is about an hour longer than the Cairnryan crossings and is really only the preferred crossing if you are heading for Wales or the southern half of England.
Well I live in the northern half of England and I can assure you that if travelling to Dublin or anywhere south of there I would not be going via Cairnryan. The trip strategy depends on the start and end points on the islands of Great Britain and Ireland. When living in the SE of England and heading to Wexford, Cork or anywhere else in SW Ireland I would go via Fishguard or Pembroke Dock.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Altnabreac »

The A75 is a pretty decent road for much of its length. Bypasses for Springholm and Crocketford would be good and some more WS2+1 sections for overtaking but broadly speaking it doesn't have too many issues.

The A77 is much more in need of upgrade than the A75 as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by mehere »

While I take your point , this is the same ' argument' on another forum about EGCN( Doncaster Sheffield Airport), in that it needs more flights, because until I got so I'll my career was GP IT support, commuting from. Doncaster to Manchester , was and still is a nightmare, for example a some trip to hipperholme took an hour longer than the satnav suggested due to traffic, plus your often forced down to 40mph on that road, due to the , Ridiculous ALR system .
That road should have been D4 With a good sized ' LAR ' for more local traffic , Eg trips of only two junctions.
Making it ' Longer ', so for folks on my side of the map infact from Leeds too you face that , and can easily add an hour or two .
The road was stated years ago as being busier than the M25.
So for me , going on the relatively quiet ( apart from the M1 to Harrogate section ) the A1(M) , A66, M6/A74(M) and finally the A75.
Holyhead or not the route IS heavily trafficked , one can be stuck behind the same Truck for tens of miles .
Yes some of it is simultaneously stunning in terms of views .
But I think a combination of road upgrades and reopening the railway linking it back into the line to Stranraer, would offer not only another rail diversion route , but serve ( like the Borders ) an area that collectively, is a railway dead zone , apart from Dumfries , so many towns and communities are cut off from a railhead.
Also a rail frieght terminal built at the port , ( as used to be there ) would offer the chance to remove a lot of traffic from the A75, if you just dualled say every ten miles , a good length of D2 , the rest S2+1 should be enough , based on your traffic figures.
It's just odd that , when the boats are in you cannot make reasonable progress along it.
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c2R
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by c2R »

KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:04
Euan wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 08:15
It depends on where you are going in Great Britain. If you are going anywhere in Scotland or the northern half of England then the quickest crossing would be to Cairnryan from either Belfast or Larne. The crossing to Holyhead from Dublin is about an hour longer than the Cairnryan crossings and is really only the preferred crossing if you are heading for Wales or the southern half of England.
Well I live in the northern half of England and I can assure you that if travelling to Dublin or anywhere south of there I would not be going via Cairnryan. The trip strategy depends on the start and end points on the islands of Great Britain and Ireland. When living in the SE of England and heading to Wexford, Cork or anywhere else in SW Ireland I would go via Fishguard or Pembroke Dock.
Whereas I often use cairnryan,even from east Anglia. It really depends for me on where I'm going , where I'm coming from, whether I want a night boat or a short crossing, time of year, that sort of thing.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Frostyj »

Euan wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 08:15
Frostyj wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 03:30 Why would you travel to County Antrim to get a ferry to Great Britain from all the way down in Galway. Would you not be better using the Dublin ferries?
It depends on where you are going in Great Britain. If you are going anywhere in Scotland or the northern half of England then the quickest crossing would be to Cairnryan from either Belfast or Larne. The crossing to Holyhead from Dublin is about an hour longer than the Cairnryan crossings and is really only the preferred crossing if you are heading for Wales or the southern half of England.
I can’t imagine driving North East for a few hours is a suitable alternative to taking the ferry to Wales and driving up to Northern England.

Afterall, Galway is quite a while away from Larne.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Frostyj »

c2R wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:46
KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:04
Euan wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 08:15
It depends on where you are going in Great Britain. If you are going anywhere in Scotland or the northern half of England then the quickest crossing would be to Cairnryan from either Belfast or Larne. The crossing to Holyhead from Dublin is about an hour longer than the Cairnryan crossings and is really only the preferred crossing if you are heading for Wales or the southern half of England.
Well I live in the northern half of England and I can assure you that if travelling to Dublin or anywhere south of there I would not be going via Cairnryan. The trip strategy depends on the start and end points on the islands of Great Britain and Ireland. When living in the SE of England and heading to Wexford, Cork or anywhere else in SW Ireland I would go via Fishguard or Pembroke Dock.
Whereas I often use cairnryan,even from east Anglia. It really depends for me on where I'm going , where I'm coming from, whether I want a night boat or a short crossing, time of year, that sort of thing.
I’d only do that if I were going to Northern Ireland.

East Anglia is basically in southern England.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by KeithW »

mehere wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:40 While I take your point , this is the same ' argument' on another forum about EGCN( Doncaster Sheffield Airport), in that it needs more flights, because until I got so I'll my career was GP IT support, commuting from. Doncaster to Manchester , was and still is a nightmare, for example a some trip to hipperholme took an hour longer than the satnav suggested due to traffic, plus your often forced down to 40mph on that road, due to the , Ridiculous ALR system .
That road should have been D4 With a good sized ' LAR ' for more local traffic , Eg trips of only two junctions.
Making it ' Longer ', so for folks on my side of the map infact from Leeds too you face that , and can easily add an hour or two .
The road was stated years ago as being busier than the M25.
So for me , going on the relatively quiet ( apart from the M1 to Harrogate section ) the A1(M) , A66, M6/A74(M) and finally the A75.
Holyhead or not the route IS heavily trafficked , one can be stuck behind the same Truck for tens of miles .
Yes some of it is simultaneously stunning in terms of views .
But I think a combination of road upgrades and reopening the railway linking it back into the line to Stranraer, would offer not only another rail diversion route , but serve ( like the Borders ) an area that collectively, is a railway dead zone , apart from Dumfries , so many towns and communities are cut off from a railhead.
Also a rail frieght terminal built at the port , ( as used to be there ) would offer the chance to remove a lot of traffic from the A75, if you just dualled say every ten miles , a good length of D2 , the rest S2+1 should be enough , based on your traffic figures.
It's just odd that , when the boats are in you cannot make reasonable progress along it.
The M62 was authorised in 1961, there was ZERO chance of anyone building a D4 motorway with parallel access roads at that time. In fact the M62 was extremely expensive and difficult to build as it was. The real problem is not the M62 as such it is the generally poor provision of good east west routes north of the A50. This has resulted in the M62 being seriously overloaded and even if you made it D4 or even D6 you would still end up on the Manchester Ring Road.

What is needed are improved roads across the northern and southern pennines. Improving the Northern part is going to be politically and technically easier as there is likely to be little opposition to upgrading the A66 and A69 and for the most part dualling is relatively straightforward.

The southern pennines is a whole different ball game as you are crossing in or close to national parks. This is a political minefield and is likely to require a very long and expensive tunnel section. As with many other high cost projects the whole BREXIT saga has deflected government attention and spending plans so don't expect any short term improvements. Even if they turned the A628 into a D3(M) superhighway you will still end up on the M60.

Extra flights will only happen if they are economically viable. Personally for business travel I believe improved rail services would prove to be a better solution in the long term. Domestic aviation has dropped considerably in areas where high speed rail has arrived. The old shuttle services from Teesside and Newcastle to London virtually disappeared overnight once the Intercity 125's began operating.

As for the A75 while being stuck behind a truck doing 50 is frustrating the reality is that the road from Gretna to Cainryan is only 100 miles long and long delays are rare, usually being caused by accidents, you can usually make it in around 2 hours. The A77 is another issue entirely. Its shorter but takes longer, drags you through congested urban areas and parts are downright dangerous.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

Frostyj wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 13:13
Euan wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 08:15
Frostyj wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 03:30 Why would you travel to County Antrim to get a ferry to Great Britain from all the way down in Galway. Would you not be better using the Dublin ferries?
It depends on where you are going in Great Britain. If you are going anywhere in Scotland or the northern half of England then the quickest crossing would be to Cairnryan from either Belfast or Larne. The crossing to Holyhead from Dublin is about an hour longer than the Cairnryan crossings and is really only the preferred crossing if you are heading for Wales or the southern half of England.
I can’t imagine driving North East for a few hours is a suitable alternative to taking the ferry to Wales and driving up to Northern England.

Afterall, Galway is quite a while away from Larne.
The Cairnryan route would be handy for reaching Newcastle or elsewhere in NE England and is much closer than Holyhead. In addition to that, the North East is quite well connected to Carlisle via the A66 or the A69 and not as well to North Wales. Yes Galway and Larne are quite far apart, but so are Holyhead and Newcastle.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by AndyB »

Travelling from near Hungerford to Ballyclare a few years ago I looked at both travelling via Cairnryan and Holyhead. The journey times were basically identical, so we went for the one that would split the journey best - and that was Holyhead. 270 miles one side 110 the other, rather than 350 miles one side and 15 miles the other.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by c2R »

AndyB wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:16 Travelling from near Hungerford to Ballyclare a few years ago I looked at both travelling via Cairnryan and Holyhead. The journey times were basically identical, so we went for the one that would split the journey best - and that was Holyhead. 270 miles one side 110 the other, rather than 350 miles one side and 15 miles the other.
Exactly that - other considerations are; when you need to arrive by and where you need to be on the other side. I really like Belfast to Birkenhead as if you can be at the port by 9 (on either side), you're then loaded onto the ferry, have a nice meal, and arrive the other side after a full night's sleep at 6.30. Equally, there are some occasions when you need to be on a boat leaving at 2am from somewhere, so you need in that case to figure out where you can get to by what time, particularly if you've been at a customer site well away from the ports and can't make a 22:30 sailing! Welcome to my world!
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Frostyj »

Couldn’t be bothered sitting on a ferry all night.

6 hours door to door, from my home to East Anglia is enough.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by KeithW »

Frostyj wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 06:51 Couldn’t be bothered sitting on a ferry all night.

6 hours door to door, from my home to East Anglia is enough.
That's why they have cabins :)

Did Hull to Rotterdam some years ago from my home in the North East some years ago on my way to Bremen. 2 hours to Hull. Ship sails at 8.30 PM and you arrive at 8.00 AM after a meal and a nights sleep ready for the 4 hour drive to Bremen. The alternative was a 5 to 6 hour drive to Folkestone , a night in the Premier Inn at the Chunnel and a 7 hour drive to Bremen.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

If you wish to separate the journey amongst two days then using the cabins on the Liverpool routes would be much easier than trying to find a hotel or inn somewhere.

...And if you prefer to do the whole journey in one go, sailing from Cairnryan, Holyhead or Fishguard is better.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Berk »

KeithW wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 08:39
Frostyj wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 06:51 Couldn’t be bothered sitting on a ferry all night.

6 hours door to door, from my home to East Anglia is enough.
That's why they have cabins :)

Did Hull to Rotterdam some years ago from my home in the North East some years ago on my way to Bremen. 2 hours to Hull. Ship sails at 8.30 PM and you arrive at 8.00 AM after a meal and a nights sleep ready for the 4 hour drive to Bremen. The alternative was a 5 to 6 hour drive to Folkestone , a night in the Premier Inn at the Chunnel and a 7 hour drive to Bremen.
That’s why I don’t quite understand why the Harwich-Esbjerg Route was pulled. Although the company would probably say bookings and takings were not sustainable, the replacement drive is pretty lengthy (Google claims it is around 610 miles).

You’d need at least two days to drive that, I would think. Plus a stopover somewhere in Germany.

The Isle Of Man overnight route is a killer. You can’t board until 2 am (lorries go first), and the route is only 3½ hours. :|
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by c2R »

Berk wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 18:31 That’s why I don’t quite understand why the Harwich-Esbjerg Route was pulled. Although the company would probably say bookings and takings were not sustainable, the replacement drive is pretty lengthy (Google claims it is around 610 miles).

You’d need at least two days to drive that, I would think. Plus a stopover somewhere in Germany.
More frustrating is getting to Norway now by car. Before; a drive to Newcastle, and an afternoon and night on the boat and you were in Bergen. Now, the fastest I've managed to do it is 20 hours including the fast ferry from Kristiansand to the north Denmark coast and then the Eurotunnel.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Altnabreac »

Maybole bypass contract awarded to Wills Bros
https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/job ... act-award/
A major infrastructure contract to improve the vital South West A77 route has been awarded and will bring added economic benefits during construction, national transport agency Transport Scotland has announced.

Wills Bros Civil Engineering Limited has been awarded the £31.5m construction contract to build the Maybole Bypass on the A77.

Michael Matheson, Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Infrastructure and Connectivity said:

“The local community will benefit from opportunities created for small and medium enterprises to bid for subcontractor roles and the provision of at least four vocational and seven professional, site-based training opportunities. The contractor anticipates that the project could employ up to 165 people, during the months of peak construction activity, a number of which are created by the project.

“We recognise the strategic importance of providing good transport links on the major routes to the key port at Cairnryan.

“Today’s announcement continues to build upon the significant investment already delivered across ten improvement projects since 2007 on the A77 and A75.

“Delivering the Maybole Bypass will provide better journey time reliability for road users as well as improved safety and environmental benefits for the local community.”

The project will include a new 5km bypass and associated junctions. The bypass will separate local traffic from those travelling longer distances, including to the port.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

Excellent news. The main street through Maybole really isn't that suitable for the amount of traffic that uses the road, especially the freight traffic crossing over to and from Ireland.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Owain »

c2R wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:46
KeithW wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:04
Euan wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 08:15
It depends on where you are going in Great Britain. If you are going anywhere in Scotland or the northern half of England then the quickest crossing would be to Cairnryan from either Belfast or Larne. The crossing to Holyhead from Dublin is about an hour longer than the Cairnryan crossings and is really only the preferred crossing if you are heading for Wales or the southern half of England.
Well I live in the northern half of England and I can assure you that if travelling to Dublin or anywhere south of there I would not be going via Cairnryan. The trip strategy depends on the start and end points on the islands of Great Britain and Ireland. When living in the SE of England and heading to Wexford, Cork or anywhere else in SW Ireland I would go via Fishguard or Pembroke Dock.
Whereas I often use cairnryan,even from east Anglia. It really depends for me on where I'm going , where I'm coming from, whether I want a night boat or a short crossing, time of year, that sort of thing.
When I moved to Leeds and my girlfriend was still in Derry, there wasn't really much in it between Cairnryan-Larne/Belfast and Liverpool/Holyhead-Dublin. I probably had a mild preference for Cairnryan over Dublin, because the A75-M6-A66-A1(M) were a far better drive than the M56-M62!

The most comfortable route of all was Liverpool-Belfast overnight with a cabin, but that was a bit of an extravagance.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by DaStreetsweep »

Thought this thread deserved a bump.

Will Maybole bypass likely be finished by the summer of 2021.

Is Girvan the next most logical bypass?

Sadly no sign of any dualling sections in the near future.

Progress is slow on this road, regardless of Covid.
Dual the A9, dual and bypass the A77, and bypass Crocketford and Springholm on the A75.
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Re: A77: Ayr to Stranraer

Post by Euan »

DaStreetsweep wrote: Tue Nov 24, 2020 01:37 Thought this thread deserved a bump.

Will Maybole bypass likely be finished by the summer of 2021.

Is Girvan the next most logical bypass?

Sadly no sign of any dualling sections in the near future.

Progress is slow on this road, regardless of Covid.
In February the expectation seemed to be that the bypass would be completed by next summer, but taking COVID-19 into account it may well be more realistic to look towards a time nearer the end of next year and especially so if as you say progress has genuinely been slow.

Girvan is logically the next place along the A77 which would merit a bypass going by the simple fact that it is by some way the largest town along the road that is not already bypassed. As I understand it the A77 through Maybole is very narrow and is not suitable for trunk road traffic while in Girvan there is some splitting of the traffic within the partial one way system in the town centre, so it is not all confined to one road as in the town centre of Maybole.
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