A3 Hindhead Tunnel

[Andy_J]

Im not saying for a minute it should have been built on line, but if the old A3 was to be kept open it defeats the point of spending £371m on a tunnel to take traffic away from the commons.

[M4 Cardiff]

I dont think anyones saying that it should remain open as a signed through route, just as a local back route. Also, because of the youth hostel and a farm in the punch bowl, a significant part of the route (from the Hundhead end) will have to remain as a tarmacced route anyway. So much for the 'uninterrupted common land' argumnent.

[Andy_J]

The Youth Hostel and farm will be accessed from the Thursley end, so that part of the A3 will be regraded, and restored to heathland.

BOAT 500 is being kept, which is the current 4x4 track across the common, but that is the only vehicular route.

[AJK1982]

It could also have been NSL throughout whereas I imagine the tunnels will be 50.

Why? The Southwick tunnel on the A27 is NSL and is quoted on the HA website as being a similar scheme.

[TimM3-A55]

conwy tunnel on the A55 has a recommended speed limit of 50mph

Also on the A55 tunnels threes a tarmac section in the centre in the run up to the tunels. This (as A303Chris said) for contraflows to be set up for maintenance and if an incident occurs.

Y should the old A3 be dismantled? other than the tree huggers wont it to be. closing it will prob cause problems later on.

[CJ]

It could also have been NSL throughout whereas I imagine the tunnels will be 50.

My understanding is that the tunnels will be NSL; the tunnels are being built as full 7.3m carriageways with a 1.2m pavement and 120 kph design speed, so there's no reason why the limit would be 50.

[cjmillsnun]

I'm from Grayshott!!!!

Yes there is serious point in keeeping the old road open.
1) What if there's a prang iin the tunnel??? whats the diversion, B2131 and A286 through Haslemere dont think that's a good idea. Possinly A325 A31, but the junction at Farnham is a joke and they'd need serous amoints of MS3/MS4's south of Petersfield and north of Guildford to do that.\
2) The location of the single dumbbell (that will be hopelessly undercapacityO nearwer Grayshott than Hindhead will increas ratrunners to Grayshott onto roads that cannot cope with the increased traffic levels. The B3002 Headley road can just cope with what its given at the mo, but traffic will divert to the U/C Crossways road, with a steep bend and 2 steep hills, that certainly can't take heavy traffic. ps Its not NIMBYism, we've wanted a bypass for years, theyve just %%%%ed up the jucntion layouts! the inconsiderate $$£%£'s!!!!!!!!!!! and dont get me started on the vindictive National Trust. I used to, I emphasise USED to approve oif them but noit any more considering their heavy handed and arrogant way of dealing with locals. Bunch of %£%$£
3) Why should local traffic have to be mixed in with long distance traffic anyway. Isn't that part of what a bypass is all about????

1) An Accident in THE tunnel? There are two. Close the other tunnel for 10 minutes to empty it then put a contraflow in. Could be what the office buildings are for (a works unit) stick a 40 limit up with temp signs up each end and re-open.

2. I agree with you about this. They got the junction layouts hopelessly wrong.

3. In this case I would think the case for restoring the Devil's Punchbowl and the opportunities for increased revenue from tourism may outweigh the drawbacks. You are still going to get to work/home quicker than you would if the A3 was still going round the Bowl.

[highwaymana31]

1) An Accident in THE tunnel? There are two. Close the other tunnel for 10 minutes to empty it then put a contraflow in. Could be what the office buildings are for (a works unit) stick a 40 limit up with temp signs up each end and re-open.

Easier said than done, You cannot just put traffic in the other tunnel. Orders have to be in place to allow this from time x to time y. Where do the crews come from to do the coning, they have to join the same queues as everybody else. The buildings will be monitoring stations for fumes, CCTV etc

[novaecosse]

1) An Accident in THE tunnel? There are two. Close the other tunnel for 10 minutes to empty it then put a contraflow in. Could be what the office buildings are for (a works unit) stick a 40 limit up with temp signs up each end and re-open.

Easier said than done, You cannot just put traffic in the other tunnel. Orders have to be in place to allow this from time x to time y. Where do the crews come from to do the coning, they have to join the same queues as everybody else. The buildings will be monitoring stations for fumes, CCTV etc

Things must be simpler in Scotland. For contraflow working all I need is an order for reduction to 50mph and an order for banning right turns (assuming there are any junctions within the contraflow section).

[highwaymana31]

1) An Accident in THE tunnel? There are two. Close the other tunnel for 10 minutes to empty it then put a contraflow in. Could be what the office buildings are for (a works unit) stick a 40 limit up with temp signs up each end and re-open.

Easier said than done, You cannot just put traffic in the other tunnel. Orders have to be in place to allow this from time x to time y. Where do the crews come from to do the coning, they have to join the same queues as everybody else. The buildings will be monitoring stations for fumes, CCTV etc

Things must be simpler in Scotland. For contraflow working all I need is an order for reduction to 50mph and an order for banning right turns (assuming there are any junctions within the contraflow section).

I was referring to accidents. Are you saying you can get an order just like that for a speed limit and no right turns. Only once have I ever been in the position of asking for an emergency contraflow (a small matter that involved a plane landing on the motorway ). It took 3.5hr's to get that order

[Raykay]

To set up a contraflow from scratch in the middle of a motorway is not always practical, but if the infastructure for one is there from the planning stage, it would not be too dificult. It works with tidal contraflows as the road layout etc. is set up for it.

[novaecosse]

I was referring to accidents. Are you saying you can get an order just like that for a speed limit and no right turns. Only once have I ever been in the position of asking for an emergency contraflow (a small matter that involved a plane landing on the motorway ). It took 3.5hr's to get that order

I agree it can take a few hours to get a notice (It depends on how quickly I can type it and if Transport Scotland are available to sign it!).
A lot of things can be done under the direction of the Police.
Put it this way, it needs to be really big before I would contemplate putting up a contraflow due to the amount of men and kit required to put one up. It often better and safer just to close the road. That said, technically I'm closing a road without a Temporary Prohibition of Traffic Order

[AJK1982]

I was referring to accidents. Are you saying you can get an order just like that for a speed limit and no right turns. Only once have I ever been in the position of asking for an emergency contraflow (a small matter that involved a plane landing on the motorway ). It took 3.5hr's to get that order

I agree it can take a few hours to get a notice (It depends on how quickly I can type it and if Transport Scotland are available to sign it!).
A lot of things can be done under the direction of the Police.
Put it this way, it needs to be really big before I would contemplate putting up a contraflow due to the amount of men and kit required to put one up. It often better and safer just to close the road. That said, technically I'm closing a road without a Temporary Prohibition of Traffic Order

The Southwick Tunnels also seem to have the infrastructure to close one tunnel and set up a contraflow through the other, there are lane control gantries above both entrances and a bit of tarmac to crossover to the other carriageway. However, I have never seen this in operation, instead the road gets closed and traffic diverted along the A270.

[Jeni]

Sureley with some snazzy lane control equiptment and mandatory enforced variable speed limits, a contraflow would be possible without deploying equiptment?

[Johnathan404]

Sureley with some snazzy lane control equiptment and mandatory enforced variable speed limits, a contraflow would be possible without deploying equiptment?

There are regular closures on the Wallasey Tunnel, and even though there are lane control signs and no central reservation, they still have cones all the way through.

[mistral]

However, I have never seen this in operation, instead the road gets closed and traffic diverted along the A270.

.... and this is the very option that will be denied to accident recovery teams should the existing road be closed. The current A3 through Hindhead may be narrow (7.3m) but it would still be a better emergency diversion than sending traffic on unnecessarily long trips through Farnham and Bordon (A31/A325) or Haslemere and Midhurst (A286/A272).

On a related point; does anyone know how long it takes to put in the diversionary arrangements on the Dartford Crossing (e.g. in the examples shown below) when the bridge or tunnel are closed? As with the proposed arrangements for Hindhead, the current diversionary route is both lengthy and congested (via the Blackwall Tunnel). For example, in recent years, the Crossing has, for one reason or another, been either fully or partially closed in February 2004,January 2005,May 2006, November 2006 and January 2007.

Surrey traffic gets disrupted enough when the M25 is blocked or closed. Much as we need the Hindhead tunnel, we really don't need the additional hassle, caused by yet another underspecced and poorly thought out HA scheme, when things start to go a bit wrong. If Hindhead is going to be sorted out, it would be fantastic if the scheme could be done properly.

[A21Will]

Given how often the Southwick tunnels are closed and traffic is diverted by the A270, I think that this is a valid point of concern. If it is so difficult to transfer all the traffic to one tunnel in a contraflow then I suggest that this procedure should be made a lot easier to do. Could a special order enabling this to take place more easily be issued for the Hindhead tunnel?

If not, then I fear that Hindhead will be heard of regularly on the travel news for many decades to come.

The points made about the Notional Trust are familiar. Sadly it seems that absolutely everyone who has to live on or adjacent to their properties despises and detest them and their attitude.

[highwaymana31]

I was referring to accidents. Are you saying you can get an order just like that for a speed limit and no right turns. Only once have I ever been in the position of asking for an emergency contraflow (a small matter that involved a plane landing on the motorway ). It took 3.5hr's to get that order

I agree it can take a few hours to get a notice (It depends on how quickly I can type it and if Transport Scotland are available to sign it!).
A lot of things can be done under the direction of the Police.
Put it this way, it needs to be really big before I would contemplate putting up a contraflow due to the amount of men and kit required to put one up. It often better and safer just to close the road. That said, technically I'm closing a road without a Temporary Prohibition of Traffic Order

The Southwick Tunnels also seem to have the infrastructure to close one tunnel and set up a contraflow through the other, there are lane control gantries above both entrances and a bit of tarmac to crossover to the other carriageway. However, I have never seen this in operation, instead the road gets closed and traffic diverted along the A270.

They may have the infrastructure etc, the point I am trying to make is that they have not/and will not be used in the case of accidents (with the regulations we have at present). Any closures you will have seen there would have been pre-planned with the relevant orders in place some time beforehand

[novaecosse]

I've had a quick look at the aerial photos on local.live.
Southwick Tunnel: Doesn't appear to have a crossover point at the east portal! The west crossing point has crash barriers which would require dropping and moving. Also the tunnels have broken lines, so the lanes would required coning. Without an east crossing point, contraflow is impractical.
Dartford Tunnel: Assuming the layout hasn't changed, looks like a doddle.
If one tunnel is out of commission, then the northbound uses the other bore. If the bridge is out of use, then there are open crossing points to allow bridge traffic to use the eastern tunnel. If you look closely theres TM in the yard at the north end!
I maybe wrong, but I'm sure the Clyde Tunnel can be contraflowed easily by moving gates across the lanes, and setting the signals on the approach gantries. Anyone confirm this?

[Johnathan404]

Southwick Tunnel definatley doesn't have crossover points. I have a photo...