Mersey Tunnels (images!)

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WHBM
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Post by WHBM » Wed May 16, 2007 18:07

Birkenhead flyovers

I remember them going up around 1970 but was not there when they went - possibly 20 years later.

The flyovers to/from Borough Road (A552) seem still there. There were another set to/from Conway Street (A553). The outbound one started alongside the one leading to Borough Road and then looped right round the outside of the tunnel marshalling area at high level in a semi-circle, across the inbound Borough Road flyover, then curving left onto and above the alignment of Conway Street, across Argyle Street, then descended into the centre of Conway Street. The inbound one started up the same ramp and over Argyle Street but then took a straight course descending to the toll booths.

It seems extraordinary that they were demolished. Their construction disrupted the centre of Birkenhead for a couple of years.

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Bryn666
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Post by Bryn666 » Wed May 16, 2007 18:09

That certainly sounds funky - anyone with a 1970s map able to show this so we can get a full picture? :?:
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Post by wallasey » Wed May 16, 2007 18:12

traffic_signals wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:
Birkenhead was similarly afflicted by peak traffic heading for the tunnel and at the same time as the Wallasey tunnel opened built a substantial flyover network for tunnel traffic. This has since been mainly demolished.
When did these get demolished? I had noticed the stub ramps there, where exactly did these lead to and are there any maps available?
yes, i am curious too!
It was just the Conway Street flyover which went. This was during the early 90's I think as part of "Wirral Citylands" which tried to regenerate Birkenhead TC. This worked well untill the money ran out leaving desolation around Conway Street.

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Post by traffic-light-man » Wed May 16, 2007 18:21

bryn, still cant find those pics! :oops:
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Bryn666
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Post by Bryn666 » Wed May 16, 2007 18:44

Here you go:

1980s and 1990s Liverpool (set)

:wink:

Lots of views of the famous GEC Bricks too.
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Post by traffic-light-man » Wed May 16, 2007 19:16

Bryn666 wrote:Here you go:

1980s and 1990s Liverpool (set)

:wink:

Lots of views of the famous GEC Bricks too.
i see, thanks! :wink:
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True Yorkie
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Post by True Yorkie » Wed May 16, 2007 19:18

a lot of demolition around liverpool eh?! :shock:
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Post by M45 Tailback » Wed May 16, 2007 20:54

Some very atmospheric pictures there! Thanks Bryn.
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Post by Derek » Wed May 16, 2007 21:19

I also remember the Birkenhead flyovers being built, a huge area of town was razed to build them.

Included in the scheme was a huge multi lane queueing area for the toll booths, which was billed at the time as being computer controlled,but the system didn't work. For years most of the lanes were unused.

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Post by A42_Sparks » Wed May 16, 2007 21:26

WHBM wrote:Birkenhead flyovers

I remember them going up around 1970 but was not there when they went - possibly 20 years later.

The flyovers to/from Borough Road (A552) seem still there. There were another set to/from Conway Street (A553). The outbound one started alongside the one leading to Borough Road and then looped right round the outside of the tunnel marshalling area at high level in a semi-circle, across the inbound Borough Road flyover, then curving left onto and above the alignment of Conway Street, across Argyle Street, then descended into the centre of Conway Street. The inbound one started up the same ramp and over Argyle Street but then took a straight course descending to the toll booths.

It seems extraordinary that they were demolished. Their construction disrupted the centre of Birkenhead for a couple of years.
WHBM is this the stub of the Conway St flyover? Google maps link.

Strange that they went to the bother of building it only to tear it down 20 years later :shock:

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Post by WHBM » Thu May 17, 2007 14:13

Yes that is it. You can also see the section of Conway Street west of the Argyle St roundabout with a grass central reservation which marks pretty much the extent of the 2-way ramp down to street level. You can pretty much interpolate the route it took round the extremity of the marshalling area. It gave a good view down onto the docks freight railway (now abandoned but you can see the weedy alignment in the photograph).

From the toll booths the ramp started as 2-lane, with gantry signs for the two routes, then it was down to one lane after the split. I see the right-hand lane on the initial section has just been hatched out.

The inbound ramp was just over Argyle Street then back down again about where the eastern of the two roundabouts is now. Both roundabouts are new; the eastern one has been built in the old queueing area, the western one with Argyle St used to be signals underneath the flyover.

Looking at the photo I cannot see what was achieved by tearing it down, makes me wonder if they had a structural problem. It was good quality work, not a rickety affair at all. Shame it could not have been picked up and used to replace the Hogarth Roundabout flyover in London !

We lived in Hoylake at the time, but in truth once the Wallasey tunnel opened our use of the route down Conway Street and into the Birkenhead tunnel evaporated. By the way, the centre where I took my driving test is just off the top of the linked photo !

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Post by Bryn666 » Thu May 17, 2007 15:31

Today I met a Tory councillor from the Wirral, and I asked about the rationale for demolishing the flyovers. He said there was little justification for it, but apparently they were only demolished within the last decade, not in the early 90s according to him.
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Post by wallasey » Thu May 17, 2007 15:40

Bryn666 wrote:Today I met a Tory councillor from the Wirral, and I asked about the rationale for demolishing the flyovers. He said there was little justification for it, but apparently they were only demolished within the last decade, not in the early 90s according to him.
Going off topic, dont suppose you mentioned their CU Bones situation?

The Wirral Globe did once show a picture of Chester Street during the time when the flyovers were being built; It is fair to say that the town has never really recovered since the mass demolision of Central Birkenhead.

Out of interest, there wern't any plans for Watson Street/Rendel Street/Exmouth Street and Charring X to be made into an inner relief route connecting the flyovers at Borough Road to the Dock Exit of the tunnel was there? If there were, its a shame nothing came of it!

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Post by Bryn666 » Thu May 17, 2007 15:47

Didn't get much chance to talk unfortunately - but the problem with the Queensway Tunnel is that without the flyovers the traffic situation there would be unbearable. As it stands, you can get from the west side of Birkenhead to central Liverpool in about 13 minutes, without the flyovers it's likely that'd take much longer with all the conflicts at the top of the A41.
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Post by wallasey » Thu May 17, 2007 21:03

Bryn666 wrote:As it stands, you can get from the west side of Birkenhead to central Liverpool in about 13 minutes, without the flyovers it's likely that'd take much longer with all the conflicts at the top of the A41.
Did you notice the top entry GEC Turtles on the underside of some of the flyovers?

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Post by Bryn666 » Thu May 17, 2007 21:21

As I went over them I didn't, no, sorry!

Will have to get a train to the Birkenhead side and get 'ground' photos of the toll plaza etc.
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Post by wallasey » Thu May 17, 2007 21:34

Theres at least 2. One under the Borough Road flyover and the other on the tunnel bound carrageway of the A41. You can see it from the bus if you sit on the right side.

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Post by wallasey » Sat May 19, 2007 12:28

Just been looking thru my aunts 1995 Liverpool A-Z and found that the Conway Street flyover is marked. Will get a scan up ASAP.

Now, I was down at the Princes Dock in Liverpool yesterday and found an alltogether different " (tunnel)" sign...

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William Jessop Way, Princes Dock, Lpool Now this could actually be correct seeing as there are restrictions on the tunnel? Do people agree?

*Apologies for poor quality, the sign is surrounded by construction sites making access difficult.

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Post by traffic-light-man » Sat May 19, 2007 12:57

i cant see it! :cry:
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Post by True Yorkie » Sat May 19, 2007 13:03

wallasey wrote:Just been looking thru my aunts 1995 Liverpool A-Z and found that the Conway Street flyover is marked. Will get a scan up ASAP.

Now, I was down at the Princes Dock in Liverpool yesterday and found an alltogether different " (tunnel)" sign...

Image
William Jessop Way, Princes Dock, Lpool Now this could actually be correct seeing as there are restrictions on the tunnel? Do people agree?

*Apologies for poor quality, the sign is surrounded by construction sites making access difficult.
hmmm, I did ask if folks knew whether cycles were allowed in the tunnels or not, if this sign is correct (ie. motorway restrictions) then that would answer my question. I saw the signs saying 'no pedestrians' earlier up in the thread.
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