The M11 extension that never happened

[Johnathan404]

I would be interested to know how the existing M11 would cope if it was built as far as it was originally intended. I would imagine a fair amount of M1/A1 traffic would be using it.

[MarkSG]

So, still no evidence then of a scheme to extend the M11 to Newcastle?

Or York, or Hull, or Lincoln, or wherever this fabled scheme was supposed to go.

A pressure group campaigning for a new, or improved, trunk road running from Newmarket and up the A17/A15/A19 corridors is hardly an M11 extension is it? Although the document is headed "the East Coast Motorway", it also talks of a trunk route "with a connection to the M11" (ie, via the A11).

Still no "official plan" then. In fact, I think this does actually bury the idea that there was some official M11 plan once and for all; now we know it was just a crackpot study by the haulage/roadbuilding industry and roads-hungry local authorities.

It wasn't a crackpot scheme, it was taken very seriously at the time. It was picked up by the Labour Party and promoted by them in the hope of gaining votes from rural areas that otherwise tended to be solidly Tory, and probably would have had a good chance of actually being built if they'd won. I'm not sure if it was actually a manifesto commitment, but their local candidates certainly made their backing clear.

However, as the election the following year returned the Conservatives for another term, it never had the chance to become government policy. By the time of the next election in 1997 the Conservatives had cut back spending money on roads in attempt to find resources for the usual pre-election tax cuts, while Labour had completely reversed their 1992 policy and were now firmly anti-road, so neither party had any interest in resurrecting the scheme.

[PJG]

WHAT!! This road can never be motorway - it is an appalling road built on the cheap with little bridges and tight sliproads, no hard shoulder, and of course where it weaves through Huntingdon it is elevated. It should never have been a throughroute even let alone motorway. I tell you it is as scary as hell if you have a problem. I was on there with my Dad last year and he had to drive over a lump of lorry exhaust (didn't see it before he had to hit it - but then it was 2 lanes solid so swerving was out) which shredded his tyre immediately. We then had to struggle to the 2 foot wide 'hard shoulder' to chage a tyre with a constant stream of Dutch and German lorries wizzing by at 40 mph - really nasty. That was as scary as some of my driving experiences in Brazil!!

I think a more sensible idea would be to upgrade/reclassify to motorway:

1) the Cambridge-Huntingdon section of the A14.

[roadtester]

IIRC the upgrade options don't retain the elevated Huntingdon section which may be dismantled.

[Chris5156]

WHAT!! This road can never be motorway - it is an appalling road built on the cheap with little bridges and tight sliproads, no hard shoulder, and of course where it weaves through Huntingdon it is elevated.

But that's not to say it can never be upgraded. An upgrade to motorway implicitly includes reconstruction of interchanges, realignment to smooth curves where necessary, etc. As part of all this, anything substandard would be swept away. Elevated roads can be replaced or widened too where necessary. In engineering terms it's not a problem, though it would be costly. I don't think anybody is implying that it should just be given blue signs and be renamed M11.

(By the way, it's more conventional to place your reply below the quote, so that other people can read the context for your response. 'Top posting' makes it more difficult to see who you are replying to and what you are talking about.)

[Halstead]

Something like the M1411 - Britains first four digit motorway.
How i worked it was that if built (doutb very much so) that junction 5 would be modified into a forked- roundabout (imagine the M45 but with a roundabout 1/2 a mile north of it) and junction 4 would also be the same design but freeflow could be a problem on the M180.

But then you'll knock the M898 off the list as the highest numbered motorway. And I haven't a clue on what you're talking about. Anyway if I were to give that part of motorway a number I'd give it an Mxxx.

But that's not to say it can never be upgraded. An upgrade to motorway implicitly includes reconstruction of interchanges, realignment to smooth curves where necessary, etc. As part of all this, anything substandard would be swept away. Elevated roads can be replaced or widened too where necessary. In engineering terms it's not a problem, though it would be costly. I don't think anybody is implying that it should just be given blue signs and be renamed M11.

I've been on the stretch of A14 from the M11 to the A1 (M) and a lot of work would need to be done in order to extend the M11. For example there are local roads and houses that directly lead to the road. Access from those roads would either need to be cut off or redirected as part of Mway regulations.

My interpretation of the extension would be to firstly redesign J14 of the M11 so that the A14 has better access. In ABeaton's strip map he made an error about the A1307 and my idea would be to have C/D roads running north of the junction that merge from the A1307, serving local roads and ending at the nearest junction above. I've designed an example of the new junction below.

Also another idea would be to have a new free flow from the new M11 to the A14 in the form of an mway terminal and going north west to the existing A14. One thing I'd like to point out is that surely upgrading to motorway it doesn't mean that it needs a certain number of lanes; the new M11 from the current terminus to the new A14 freeflow could be D3M while it loses a lane (but has hard shoulders) and connects to the A1 (M).

[Truvelo]

That is almost identical to the HA's published version below.

[url=https://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girton.gif"><img src="https://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girtonthumb.jpg]https://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girton.gif"><img src="https://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girtonthumb.jpg[/url]

[Roadtripper_Ian]

With regards to the suggestion about reclassifying the HQDC sections of A19, they are relatively short (Thirk bypass, Crathorne - Wynyard, Peterlee - Gateshead) with long sections of AP D2 complete with farm access and central reserve gaps.

[PJG]

Ok I'll put my response under - although it is net standard to be above

That is almost identical to the HA's published version below.

[url=http://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girton.gif"><img src="http://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girtonthumb.jpg]http://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girton.gif"><img src="http://speedcam.co.uk/sabremaps/girtonthumb.jpg[/url]

This is the first time I've seen this, it looks good. But a couple of points.
Why is it not motorway if there are B-classified service roads each side?
Also I presume that even though the existing section from the M11 to Bar Hill is D3 with hard shoulders, it cannot be retained as the Crematorium sits right on the Southern side - this would mean moving the road to the North so I would guess that the existing Westbound carriageway would become the Westbound service road, the Eastbound carriageway woud be the new Westbound cariageway - etc. Major reconstruction job - I remember the mess it was when they originally built this section - and traffic was far less then.

Also just noticed, there is no way to get from Bar Hill to the Crematorium on this map - unless you go through Dry Drayton etc - could be an issue. Unless the service roads are 2-way - which by the looks of the layout of the junctions they can't be.

[Chris5156]

Ok I'll put my response under - although it is net standard to be above

Never encountered it myself - try it on Usenet and you'll get a serious flaming. This signature I've encountered before seems to sum it up...

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing in e-mail?

Anyway...

That is almost identical to the HA's published version below

This is the first time I've seen this, it looks good. But a couple of points.
Why is it not motorway if there are B-classified service roads each side?

I suspect it's simply because the HA don't "do" motorways any more. Unless the road already is a motorway, they won't classify it as one. The word tends to get a bad press so it's avoided these days.

Sad, really, because if a road is of a high standard it should be easily identifiable as such.

[Halstead]

That is almost identical to the HA's published version below.

Hmm... really? Some of the slip roads look different and the M11 isn't extended any further compared to mine. If it were identical then I'd better get my coat on then.

[Norfolktolancashire]

I remember the scheme for the M11 extension from the end of the existing M11 past Lincoln and over the Humber Bridge, past York, joining the A19 near Thirsk.
The main reason was to breathe new life into the recently formed Humberside region, hence the M62 and M180 also built.
It would have worked as a D2, possibly tolled, as even though the Fenland area near Peterborough is sparsly populated, there were serious plans for a large new town and airport being built near Crowland to the nort east of Peterborough of which this motorway would service.
I think that only very recently these plans for an airport the size of Stansted have been completely dropped.
The extended M11 would have drastically helped reduce the north/south traffic on the A1 and M1.

[A303Paul]

Hmm why exactly does the B1050 merit being a dual carriageway with full grade separation at Hill, or is truvelo exaggerating?

[PJG]

It's Bar Hill - a 'new' commuter town for Cambridge (built 1970s/80s). Still unfinished - there were always plans to make it bigger - unless they go back to building Cambourn instead.

Hmm why exactly does the B1050 merit being a dual carriageway with full grade separation at Hill, or is truvelo exaggerating?

[roadtester]

Cambourne seems to have the momentum behind it at the moment in terms of new building, although Bar Hill got an enormous new Tesco a few years back. Cambourne is benefiting a lot from the A428 improvements, of course.

There's also some pressure for a new town north of Cambridge off the A10 near Stretham. Mereham is the name that gets mentioned in the local press - not sure what the latest is with that. All I can say is that the A10 going south towards Cambridge is already terrible in the rush hour and this would surely only make it worse.

[doebag]

Cambourne seems to have the momentum behind it at the moment in terms of new building, although Bar Hill got an enormous new Tesco a few years back. Cambourne is benefiting a lot from the A428 improvements, of course.

There's also some pressure for a new town north of Cambridge off the A10 near Stretham. Mereham is the name that gets mentioned in the local press - not sure what the latest is with that. All I can say is that the A10 going south towards Cambridge is already terrible in the rush hour and this would surely only make it worse.

The A10 is indded a bad road in the rush hour. A lot of local villages have 'say no to Mereham' signs in house windows etc.