Where are the Little Chefs going?

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RichardA626
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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I remember just having a sandwich on the BMI Heathrow - Manchester shuttle in 2001.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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avtur wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 09:11 Personally, I don't think there is a sustainable market for "full roadside meals", if there was it would have been identified by a supplier who would be making a killing by supplying that demand. One of the successful traits of LC was the perceived consistency of offering, whatever you liked on their menu could be ordered at any of their outlets with full knowledge that you knew what you were getting. For the most part, that aspect of consistency is something that people still find appealing, but in terms of today's roadside food offerings, it is being met by fast-food suppliers because that is what people want, the success of the current offerings says it all. That isn't to say what's on offer will meet everyone's wishes, but it works for the majority meaning there is no incentive for a supplier to offer anything different.

There are well-established ways of not paying over the odds for travel food, for instance, searching out supermarkets near motorway junctions, where toilets can be found, free parking and convenience food at supermarket prices, not MSA prices ... and of course fuel as well. If I wanted a fuller meal while travelling (which personally is not something that appeals to me) then much as you can search for supermarkets near motorway junction you could search for roadside pubs with eateries (Harveters and the likes)
I think you're spot on about consistency - and sadly in its dying days LC had become consistently dire - but my thought is another reason it's not been repeated is the media liked to stamp all over the idea of roadside eating so which business mind is going to gamble everything on becoming the next tedious sneering "comedian" routine for 20 years?

I don't think people rush to Maccies et al because they're delightful examples of culinary expertise but rather because they are relatively cheap and fast, it's another symptom of the British disease of 'must shave 3 seconds off everything' and losing the overall quality of life picture.

That said, supermarket cafes provide a basic, nothing special, all day breakfast that does the job for a fraction of the price LC charged, and it's served in a fraction of the time too and they're often busy so that suggests something is being done right. French supermarkets used to go one further have have bar/tabacs instead of cafes...
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Bryn666 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:01
I don't think people rush to Maccies et al because they're delightful examples of culinary expertise but rather because they are relatively cheap and fast, it's another symptom of the British disease of 'must shave 3 seconds off everything' and losing the overall quality of life picture.

That said, supermarket cafes provide a basic, nothing special, all day breakfast that does the job for a fraction of the price LC charged, and it's served in a fraction of the time too and they're often busy so that suggests something is being done right. French supermarkets used to go one further have have bar/tabacs instead of cafes...
When I made my grocery pickup in early Jan I noticed that the queue for the drive through McDonalds was over 160 m long so it wouldnt have been exactly fast food. In fact it stretched past the petrol station and was partly blocking the supermarket exit.
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5914309 ... authuser=0

As to price supermarket cafes are often run as a loss leader and at best cover their costs. At the moment the big money is being made by companies such as Deliveroo who have deals with fast food chains.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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KeithW wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:16
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:01
I don't think people rush to Maccies et al because they're delightful examples of culinary expertise but rather because they are relatively cheap and fast, it's another symptom of the British disease of 'must shave 3 seconds off everything' and losing the overall quality of life picture.

That said, supermarket cafes provide a basic, nothing special, all day breakfast that does the job for a fraction of the price LC charged, and it's served in a fraction of the time too and they're often busy so that suggests something is being done right. French supermarkets used to go one further have have bar/tabacs instead of cafes...
When I made my grocery pickup in early Jan I noticed that the queue for the drive through McDonalds was over 160 m long so it wouldnt have been exactly fast food. In fact it stretched past the petrol station and was partly blocking the supermarket exit.
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5914309 ... authuser=0

As to price supermarket cafes are often run as a loss leader and at best cover their costs. At the moment the big money is being made by companies such as Deliveroo who have deals with fast food chains.
Fast food often isn't fast - well, not if you go in the drive thru because it only takes one bespoke order to cause a backlog. Also with reduced staffing and Covid measures fast food joints are not able to do any rapid turnarounds, queues are quite frequent. And of course you can't go inside...
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by Big Nick »

The McDonalds outside Harlow on the M11 junction regularly has a line of 20-30 cars outside backing up to the roundabout itself. Because of the layout they can't make any real use of the car park itself. I have seen Essex Police actively moving cars on from blocking the road.

Last week I chose to skip past the drive-thru, park and walk in to get my order. It would have been quicker if the staff weren't busy making up massive orders for the many Deliveroo/Just Eat guys and focusing on the drive-thru. I still think I got my bespoke* order only just after the car I had been behind was pulling away from the window.

Now I can't even do that as McDonalds have decided to close their doors to walk-in orders. FYI - their new Katsu Chicken nuggets are OK with their curry sauce.

*All main McDonald branches do bespoke orders now, made up on the spot for you instead of sitting in a hot grill for ages waiting to be sold. That adds a little to the time.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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trickstat wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 00:21 What I also found crazy was that quite often those meals might be served in the middle of the morning, when I suspect most people have had a breakfast but aren't ready for lunch, or mid-afternoon, when it was late to be having lunch but rather early for dinner/tea/supper.
The fun bit is where the plane is significantly delayed. You get breakfast served mid-afternoon because breakfast is served immediately after departure and the fact take-off has been moved from 7am to 1pm is irrelevant. :D
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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vlad wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 19:58
trickstat wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 00:21 What I also found crazy was that quite often those meals might be served in the middle of the morning, when I suspect most people have had a breakfast but aren't ready for lunch, or mid-afternoon, when it was late to be having lunch but rather early for dinner/tea/supper.
The fun bit is where the plane is significantly delayed. You get breakfast served mid-afternoon because breakfast is served immediately after departure and the fact take-off has been moved from 7am to 1pm is irrelevant. :D
Yes, because the breakfasts would either be already on the plane or have been allocated to it.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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vlad wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 19:58
trickstat wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 00:21 What I also found crazy was that quite often those meals might be served in the middle of the morning, when I suspect most people have had a breakfast but aren't ready for lunch, or mid-afternoon, when it was late to be having lunch but rather early for dinner/tea/supper.
The fun bit is where the plane is significantly delayed. You get breakfast served mid-afternoon because breakfast is served immediately after departure and the fact take-off has been moved from 7am to 1pm is irrelevant. :D

When working in the USA I often used Kuwait Airways from Heathrow to JFK. LHR was an interim stop where half the passengers would get off, flight code KU 102. This and the fact they didnt serve alcohol meant I could go business class from LHR to JFK for little more than the cattle class seats on other airlines. A bonus was the food as they served which included Middle Eastern, Asian, Vegetarian and Western meals and the Arabic Coffee was excellent.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by ravenbluemoon »

KeithW wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:16 When I made my grocery pickup in early Jan I noticed that the queue for the drive through McDonalds was over 160 m long so it wouldnt have been exactly fast food. In fact it stretched past the petrol station and was partly blocking the supermarket exit.
https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5914309 ... authuser=0
Costa have recently opened a drive-thru outlet on the A38 Sutton Road heading out of Mansfield - it always seems busy as I pass by at 07:30 every morning, but I do wonder if it is time saving in any shape or form - I brew my own filter coffee and put it into my reusable ceramic travel mug in less time than it'd take to get a Costa from there - and arguably my stuff is a lot better tasting.
Bryn666 wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:01 That said, supermarket cafes provide a basic, nothing special, all day breakfast that does the job for a fraction of the price LC charged, and it's served in a fraction of the time too and they're often busy so that suggests something is being done right. French supermarkets used to go one further have have bar/tabacs instead of cafes...
When I used to travel around the country a lot for work, the supermarket cafes found just off the motorway were our preferred choice for breakfast as opposed to whatever overpriced rubbish the services offered. They're usually pretty quick and have a decent enough of a range. Probably also slightly healthier than my other alternatives, which include the old-fashioned trucker's cafes (guilty pleasure!).
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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ravenbluemoon wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 01:31Costa have recently opened a drive-thru outlet on the A38 Sutton Road heading out of Mansfield - it always seems busy as I pass by at 07:30 every morning, but I do wonder if it is time saving in any shape or form - I brew my own filter coffee and put it into my reusable ceramic travel mug in less time than it'd take to get a Costa from there - and arguably my stuff is a lot better tasting.
If your filter coffee actually tastes of coffee, then you're already a step ahead of Costa.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 03:48
ravenbluemoon wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 01:31Costa have recently opened a drive-thru outlet on the A38 Sutton Road heading out of Mansfield - it always seems busy as I pass by at 07:30 every morning, but I do wonder if it is time saving in any shape or form - I brew my own filter coffee and put it into my reusable ceramic travel mug in less time than it'd take to get a Costa from there - and arguably my stuff is a lot better tasting.
If your filter coffee actually tastes of coffee, then you're already a step ahead of Costa.
I actually feel that Costa's coffee tastes worse than 10 years ago while Starbucks coffee tastes slightly better. I used to find Costa felt a lot closer to Caffe Nero but they seem to have gone downhill - could this be the fault of Coke's acquisition? Starbucks are at least as good as what they used to be and I feel may have even improved a little. My college has both a Costa and a Starbucks concession, and at least there (it could be down to who usually mans them), I actually feel the Starbucks coffee tastes significantly better.

Ultimately though, my favourite coffee shop chains would be Boston Tea Party, which is a regional South West chain based in Bristol, and O'Briens, which are Irish and closed all their stores in England following the 2008 financial crash. There are quite a lot of independent stores which also rival both of these in terms of their quality, though sadly I can't think of anywhere in Swindon.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Chris5156 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 03:48 If your filter coffee actually tastes of coffee, then you're already a step ahead of Costa.
Filter coffee ! Nasty tasteless muck - mine at home comes from my bean to cup coffee machine - speaking of which its time to fire it up :)

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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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RJDG14 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 04:23 I actually feel that Costa's coffee tastes worse than 10 years ago while Starbucks coffee tastes slightly better. I used to find Costa felt a lot closer to Caffe Nero but they seem to have gone downhill - could this be the fault of Coke's acquisition? Starbucks are at least as good as what they used to be and I feel may have even improved a little. My college has both a Costa and a Starbucks concession, and at least there (it could be down to who usually mans them), I actually feel the Starbucks coffee tastes significantly better.

Ultimately though, my favourite coffee shop chains would be Boston Tea Party, which is a regional South West chain based in Bristol, and O'Briens, which are Irish and closed all their stores in England following the 2008 financial crash. There are quite a lot of independent stores which also rival both of these in terms of their quality, though sadly I can't think of anywhere in Swindon.
Colleges must have gone soft, when I went to Teesside Poly the choice of drink in the buttery was either John Smiths Bitter, Vaux Double Maxim or Lager for the trendy :)
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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KeithW wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 08:25
RJDG14 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 04:23 I actually feel that Costa's coffee tastes worse than 10 years ago while Starbucks coffee tastes slightly better. I used to find Costa felt a lot closer to Caffe Nero but they seem to have gone downhill - could this be the fault of Coke's acquisition? Starbucks are at least as good as what they used to be and I feel may have even improved a little. My college has both a Costa and a Starbucks concession, and at least there (it could be down to who usually mans them), I actually feel the Starbucks coffee tastes significantly better.

Ultimately though, my favourite coffee shop chains would be Boston Tea Party, which is a regional South West chain based in Bristol, and O'Briens, which are Irish and closed all their stores in England following the 2008 financial crash. There are quite a lot of independent stores which also rival both of these in terms of their quality, though sadly I can't think of anywhere in Swindon.
Colleges must have gone soft, when I went to Teesside Poly the choice of drink in the buttery was either John Smiths Bitter, Vaux Double Maxim or Lager for the trendy :)
That's a university, not a further education college like where I'm currently doing a 1 year higher course.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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RJDG14 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:11
KeithW wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 08:25
RJDG14 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 04:23 I actually feel that Costa's coffee tastes worse than 10 years ago while Starbucks coffee tastes slightly better. I used to find Costa felt a lot closer to Caffe Nero but they seem to have gone downhill - could this be the fault of Coke's acquisition? Starbucks are at least as good as what they used to be and I feel may have even improved a little. My college has both a Costa and a Starbucks concession, and at least there (it could be down to who usually mans them), I actually feel the Starbucks coffee tastes significantly better.

Ultimately though, my favourite coffee shop chains would be Boston Tea Party, which is a regional South West chain based in Bristol, and O'Briens, which are Irish and closed all their stores in England following the 2008 financial crash. There are quite a lot of independent stores which also rival both of these in terms of their quality, though sadly I can't think of anywhere in Swindon.
Colleges must have gone soft, when I went to Teesside Poly the choice of drink in the buttery was either John Smiths Bitter, Vaux Double Maxim or Lager for the trendy :)
That's a university, not a further education college like where I'm currently doing a 1 year higher course.

It is now, when I was there it was a polytechnic which provided everything from part time BTEC vocational courses to degrees. It started out as Constantine College. I was studying Mechanical Engineering. In 1984 I went to Warley College (now Sandwell College) on a computer aided engineering course. This was one year full time course for people already active in the Engineering world. Both offered further and higher education courses. They couldn't confer degrees in their own right but those could be granted via the UK Council for National Academic Awards (CNAA).

Warley college was a rather interesting place where you could meet 16 year olds on a bricklaying course or 30 to 40 year engineers learning about these new fangled computers. It was rather ironic that the Engineering Drawing course used good old fashioned drawing boards.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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KeithW wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 13:20 It is now, when I was there it was a polytechnic which provided everything from part time BTEC vocational courses to degrees. It started out as Constantine College. I was studying Mechanical Engineering. In 1984 I went to Warley College (now Sandwell College) on a computer aided engineering course. This was one year full time course for people already active in the Engineering world. Both offered further and higher education courses. They couldn't confer degrees in their own right but those could be granted via the UK Council for National Academic Awards (CNAA).

Warley college was a rather interesting place where you could meet 16 year olds on a bricklaying course or 30 to 40 year engineers learning about these new fangled computers. It was rather ironic that the Engineering Drawing course used good old fashioned drawing boards.
It would be interesting to know how those some of those more vocational types of training/education are being offered today, now that the process of universitification has been completed - hopefully they haven't somehow fallen through the cracks.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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There is a new service area next to the A595 at Lillyhall which has a drive through Burger King, a Starbucks, Greggs and a Sainsbury Local, all aimed at people with cars, and it would be possible to have a burger, a coffee, a cake to take home and some shopping in one go.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Glenn A wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 14:15 There is a new service area next to the A595 at Lillyhall which has a drive through Burger King, a Starbucks, Greggs and a Sainsbury Local, all aimed at people with cars, and it would be possible to have a burger, a coffee, a cake to take home and some shopping in one go.
That's just a shopping centre then!
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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roadtester wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 13:34
It would be interesting to know how those some of those more vocational types of training/education are being offered today, now that the process of universitification has been completed - hopefully they haven't somehow fallen through the cracks.
The degree currently rules, when I was in college you could become a member of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers by doing supplemental modules if you had an HNC or HND in mechanical engineering. There are still some higher vocational courses but they are becoming an endangered species. A pity really as the old way gave future engineers an excellent knowledge of the hands on side of the profession. There is some recognition of this now in the form of Higher or Modern apprenticeships which are pretty similar to the Technical Apprentice system I followed so all is not lost.

The real problem is that relatively few companies have been hiring them but locally they seem to be coming back into fashion, one of my nephews is working in IT and following this vocational path. Middlesbrough College is practically a reinvented Teesside polytechnic and is extending its range of qualifications to Level 6 (Equivalent to an honours degree or chartered manager degree) and Level 7(equivalent to a master’s degree). From his point of view it means he can get the qualifications he wants without an accompanying huge student loan.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Ruperts Trooper wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 14:17
Glenn A wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 14:15 There is a new service area next to the A595 at Lillyhall which has a drive through Burger King, a Starbucks, Greggs and a Sainsbury Local, all aimed at people with cars, and it would be possible to have a burger, a coffee, a cake to take home and some shopping in one go.
That's just a shopping centre then!
It has fuel pumps and charging points and is classed as a service area. Also with West Lakes College, a village of 3000 people and the A595, the potential for the site is huge.
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