Where are the Little Chefs going?

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the cheesecake man
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by the cheesecake man »

James Heaton wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 20:19
Glenn A wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 18:01
jabbaboy wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 19:26 The last part of Little Chef should go offline today, their domain expires today (littlechef.co.uk).
End of an era and unthinkable even 20 years ago, but the business fell behind the times, couldn't compete with roadside pubs and supermarkets offering cheaper food, and many looked worn out.
The website's still there...

James
Sounds like the Grace Period Hdeng16 mentioned. I've no idea who she is though. :lol:

Sad indeed but like Woolworths inevitable. I have fond memories of frequent stops at Little Chef in the 1980s and they were always busy, service was good and the food reasonable. In contrast I only went once in the twenty-first century, we were the only customers in, service and food were poor. Like Woolworths had (and also WHSmith ...) its function had been squeezed out of existence: by new competition (pubs for a decent reasonably priced meal, KFC or McDonalds for speed), road improvements (so some journeys no longer a require a meal break and many of the Little Chefs we used to stop at have been wiped out by upgrades (especially the A1 through North Yorkshire)) and car improvements (you certainly didn't go more than two hours without a break in the cars my father had in the 1980s).
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by avtur »

Glenn A wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 18:01 ....End of an era and unthinkable even 20 years ago, but the business fell behind the times, couldn't compete with roadside pubs and supermarkets offering cheaper food, and many looked worn out....
And from my poimt of view thier failures were exactly what they deserved. Throuh this period Mrs Avtur was a unit manager for Liitte Chef, it was the most unfair misogynistic work place you could imagine. I guarentee no one here would accept their wife bring treated the way my wife was.


Little Chef units ran on the reputation they developed locally which was 100% down to the local staff but this was never recognised. In terms of employee conditions. The local staff were never recognised it was a shambolic busieness.

Mrs Avtur was then unit manager for one of the most successful outlets in the UK, she never received any acknowledgment for this and all I can remember of these times is that I wanted to meet her regional manger and punch his lights out. It was an absoutley disgraceful business model.

If you have fond memories of Little Chef breakfast then that is fine but you have no idea of the imoral and unfair emplyment practices that went on behind the scenes.
Last edited by avtur on Sat Aug 08, 2020 09:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by Hdeng16 »

the cheesecake man wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 21:21
James Heaton wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 20:19
Glenn A wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 18:01

End of an era and unthinkable even 20 years ago, but the business fell behind the times, couldn't compete with roadside pubs and supermarkets offering cheaper food, and many looked worn out.
The website's still there...

James
Sounds like the Grace Period Hdeng16 mentioned. I've no idea who she is though. :lol:

Sad indeed but like Woolworths inevitable. I have fond memories of frequent stops at Little Chef in the 1980s and they were always busy, service was good and the food reasonable. In contrast I only went once in the twenty-first century, we were the only customers in, service and food were poor. Like Woolworths had (and also WHSmith ...) its function had been squeezed out of existence: by new competition (pubs for a decent reasonably priced meal, KFC or McDonalds for speed), road improvements (so some journeys no longer a require a meal break and many of the Little Chefs we used to stop at have been wiped out by upgrades (especially the A1 through North Yorkshire)) and car improvements (you certainly didn't go more than two hours without a break in the cars my father had in the 1980s).
Completely off topic I know but I disagree about Woolworths. They screwed it up all by themselves.

The range, b&m, home bargains, wilko, others are literally either partly Woolworths or completely Woolworths.

There was and is a business model that they could have continued with.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Hdeng16 wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 23:38
the cheesecake man wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 21:21 Sounds like the Grace Period Hdeng16 mentioned. I've no idea who she is though. :lol:

Sad indeed but like Woolworths inevitable. I have fond memories of frequent stops at Little Chef in the 1980s and they were always busy, service was good and the food reasonable. In contrast I only went once in the twenty-first century, we were the only customers in, service and food were poor. Like Woolworths had (and also WHSmith ...) its function had been squeezed out of existence: by new competition (pubs for a decent reasonably priced meal, KFC or McDonalds for speed), road improvements (so some journeys no longer a require a meal break and many of the Little Chefs we used to stop at have been wiped out by upgrades (especially the A1 through North Yorkshire)) and car improvements (you certainly didn't go more than two hours without a break in the cars my father had in the 1980s).
Completely off topic I know but I disagree about Woolworths. They screwed it up all by themselves.

The range, b&m, home bargains, wilko, others are literally either partly Woolworths or completely Woolworths.

There was and is a business model that they could have continued with.
Unusual for the website to stay up in the grace period, usually it's replaced with a message saying it's due for renewal.

For Woolworths though it was a different story altogether, basically Kingfisher (B&Q) sold all the sites and leased them back at unrealistic rates then dumped the company a few months later. Same story with Superdrug which has been up and down since. It's where the money came from to create all the B&Q Warehouses from no-where. Pity for them karma is biting now and B&Q has it's own problems.

https://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/ne ... hs/a227265

I'm sure the year they went bust they had revenue of over £1 billion and still made a loss.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by RichardA626 »

Woolworths seemed to make a few bad mistakes over the years.

http://woolworthsmuseum.co.uk This has more details.

For example, selling off Shopper's World and the Woolcos seemed to been short sighted in retrospect.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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One of my memories of Woolworths was that, in the 80s, they would have quite lavish Christmas adverts featuring products that just didn't exist at our local store in Stevenage (and I assume many others).
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by jedikiah »

Tony Wilkinson who was responsible for turning his father's dozen or so hardware shops in the Midlands in the late 1950s into a chain across much of England by the time he handed it on to the next generation didn't start working there when he left school. He spent a few years working in a Woolworths.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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avtur wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 22:50
Glenn A wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 18:01 ....End of an era and unthinkable even 20 years ago, but the business fell behind the times, couldn't compete with roadside pubs and supermarkets offering cheaper food, and many looked worn out....
And from my poimt of view thier failures were exactly what they deserved. Throuh this period Mrs Avtur was a unit manager for Liitte Chef, it was the most unfair misogynistic work place you could imagine. I guarentee no one here would accept their wife bring treated the way my wife was.


Little Chef units ran on the reputation they developed locally which was 100% down to the local staff but this was never recognised. In terms of employee conditions. The local staff were never recognised it was a shambolic busieness.

Mrs Avtur was then unit manager for one of the most successful outlets in the UK, she never received any acknowledgment for this and all I can remember of these times is that I wanted to meet her regional manger and punch his lights out. It was an absoutley disgraceful business model.

If you have fond memories of Little Chef breakfast then that is fine but you have no idea of the imoral and unfair emplyment practices that went on behind the scenes.
I did hear they often employed teenagers and YTS to keep costs down and were quite hire and fire. Probably explained why Little Chef customer care was never very good, the staff were treated badly and never knew how long their jobs would last. Sounds very like a filling station/ shop I worked in 25 years ago, the owner would take staff on for a 6 week trial and then dump them as he had to pay national insurance thereafter. I can remember being hassled constantly for poor work, tiny mistakes like putting a Daily Mirror on top of a Daily Mail and being grassed on by an obnoxious AIC. Seemingly this was a merry go round as whoever took the job after me was probably ditched after 6 weeks for not meeting the owner's standards.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Glenn A wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 16:12
I did hear they often employed teenagers and YTS to keep costs down and were quite hire and fire. Probably explained why Little Chef customer care was never very good, the staff were treated badly and never knew how long their jobs would last. Sounds very like a filling station/ shop I worked in 25 years ago, the owner would take staff on for a 6 week trial and then dump them as he had to pay national insurance thereafter. I can remember being hassled constantly for poor work, tiny mistakes like putting a Daily Mirror on top of a Daily Mail and being grassed on by an obnoxious AIC. Seemingly this was a merry go round as whoever took the job after me was probably ditched after 6 weeks for not meeting the owner's standards.
Given that after 2002 the business was owed by a series of property companies, asset strippers in all but name, who had no knowledge of or interest in the catering business this should be no surprise. I knew the manager of one outlet in South Cambridgeshire and they first thing the new owners did was halve the staffing level so there were often ever 3 people on duty to cook, man the tills, clean and serve tables. This resulted in the quality of the food plummeting as the only way to cope was with precooked food kept in a hot table. The last time I went in I was served with a gammon steak that would have done better service resoling my shoe and eggs that would have made serviceable ice hockey pucks. A month later it was closed and is now a convenience store.

Once the lease on rented properties expired they would simply walk away and outlets they owned would be sold as soon as they stopped making money or needed investment. In the interim they were run as cheaply as possible, this is what caused the fall in quality, poor treatment of staff and closure of large numbers of outlets. In the last tranche many ended up being owned by Euro Garages who installed franchises such as Starbucks and Greggs.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Yes, it was neglect, due to a lack of interest that sank LC. Other companies have fallen victim to private equity cowboys. It is unlikely they even knew what these companies did. They just look at the figures, buy, asset strip, sell.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by avtur »

KeithW wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 16:54
Glenn A wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 16:12
I did hear they often employed teenagers and YTS to keep costs down and were quite hire and fire. Probably explained why Little Chef customer care was never very good, the staff were treated badly and never knew how long their jobs would last. Sounds very like a filling station/ shop I worked in 25 years ago, the owner would take staff on for a 6 week trial and then dump them as he had to pay national insurance thereafter. I can remember being hassled constantly for poor work, tiny mistakes like putting a Daily Mirror on top of a Daily Mail and being grassed on by an obnoxious AIC. Seemingly this was a merry go round as whoever took the job after me was probably ditched after 6 weeks for not meeting the owner's standards.
Given that after 2002 the business was owed by a series of property companies, asset strippers in all but name, who had no knowledge of or interest in the catering business this should be no surprise. I knew the manager of one outlet in South Cambridgeshire and they first thing the new owners did was halve the staffing level so there were often ever 3 people on duty to cook, man the tills, clean and serve tables. This resulted in the quality of the food plummeting as the only way to cope was with precooked food kept in a hot table. The last time I went in I was served with a gammon steak that would have done better service resoling my shoe and eggs that would have made serviceable ice hockey pucks. A month later it was closed and is now a convenience store.

Once the lease on rented properties expired they would simply walk away and outlets they owned would be sold as soon as they stopped making money or needed investment. In the interim they were run as cheaply as possible, this is what caused the fall in quality, poor treatment of staff and closure of large numbers of outlets. In the last tranche many ended up being owned by Euro Garages who installed franchises such as Starbucks and Greggs.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that the rot set in during THF days. The THF management system was a complete disgrace.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by Al__S »

There's an ex Little Chef (latterly a Burger King) still standing at Bar Hill (along with an ex petrol station and small ex Travelodge). The site used to be accessed from the west bound on ramp of the A14, with all traffic exiting headed west.

I'm not actually clear what the access now is, for any future use of the site. There's a tarmac strip headed away from the Bar Hill village website that's been built, but no roundabout exit- it connects to a foot/cycle crossing drop kerb. Access through Trafalgar Way isn't possible, unless the site is to be cleared an be taken over by Domino (but I've not heard of any indication that might happen)
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by the cheesecake man »

avtur wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 22:50
Glenn A wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 18:01 ....End of an era and unthinkable even 20 years ago, but the business fell behind the times, couldn't compete with roadside pubs and supermarkets offering cheaper food, and many looked worn out....
And from my poimt of view thier failures were exactly what they deserved.
I doubt anyone disagrees with that. Failure to keep up with the times, neglect by a series of short-term owners etc etc
Little Chef units ran on the reputation they developed locally
I'm not so sure, certainly not in the 1980s and early 90s when we used them regularly. By definition we would never be using a local outlet so wouldn't know what their reputation was. Their attraction was a recognised brand where you knew what you'd get in whatever unfamiliar part of the land you were.
you have no idea of the imoral and unfair emplyment practices that went on behind the scenes.
As a customer no of course we didn't, but were Little Chef unique? It's not as if McDonald's for example have a reputation for quality jobs, indeed they have entered the language as "mcjobs".
Hdeng16 wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 23:38 Completely off topic I know but I disagree about Woolworths. They screwed it up all by themselves.

The range, b&m, home bargains, wilko, others are literally either partly Woolworths or completely Woolworths.

There was and is a business model that they could have continued with.
Those are of course exactly the sorts of places I started shopping in the late 90s where I'd have enthusiastically gone straight to Woolworths in the 80s and early 90s. Woolworths certainly hastened their own demise but there must be questions over what they could have done to retain my custom in the face of new competition from specialists and discounters and then online sales.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 13:22 I'm not so sure, certainly not in the 1980s and early 90s when we used them regularly. By definition we would never be using a local outlet so wouldn't know what their reputation was. Their attraction was a recognised brand where you knew what you'd get in whatever unfamiliar part of the land you were.
you have no idea of the imoral and unfair emplyment practices that went on behind the scenes.
As a customer no of course we didn't, but were Little Chef unique? It's not as if McDonald's for example have a reputation for quality jobs, indeed they have entered the language as "mcjobs".
I also used LC into the 1990's for the same reason. I think where LC made the critical mistake is not adopting the franchise model used by McDonalds , Burger King. Subway etc. When you require the people running a franchise to invest a very large amount of money to get into the business and they stand to lose it if standards slip but they take most of the profit there is a big incentive to keep the place going.

Most catering outlets were and still are not exactly in the top rank of employers. In Middlesbrough in the 1960's and 70's there was a chain of cafe's called Rea's which was the name of the founder, they closed down when he retired and the son who was destined to inherit it (Chris Rea) decided his future lay in the music business. They were actually quite good employers but then almost everyone who worked there was family. My auntie was married to a Rea and she ran one of the cafes.

There are a number of a quite similar chains in the same business as LC in the USA (Denny's, Waffle House etc) and they have prospered with the franchise system.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 13:22
Little Chef units ran on the reputation they developed locally
I'm not so sure, certainly not in the 1980s and early 90s when we used them regularly. By definition we would never be using a local outlet so wouldn't know what their reputation was. Their attraction was a recognised brand where you knew what you'd get in whatever unfamiliar part of the land you were.
Maybe a poor choice of words by me but the location of some LC outlets meant that they becasue firm favourites with a local regular clientele. You may never have used a local outlet in that way but I can assure that outlets in some locations became very popuar destinations in their own right, not a stopping point on-route to a destination. If you used them only when travelling then I understand you would not have seen this.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by Chris56000 »

Hi!

Has anyone got a full list of the branches when they had the maximum number (439 I think!) Open?

Website still up!

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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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Chris56000 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 17:40 Hi!

Has anyone got a full list of the branches when they had the maximum number (439 I think!) Open?

Website still up!

Chris Williams
At a push there might be a Little Chef "atlas" that they handed out for free knocking about at my parents but they were flimsy affairs. We had one around 1998 which was very keen to extol the virtues of the Bluebell Hill site, because it was a prefabricated building so was constructed in weeks rather than months.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by KeithW »

Chris56000 wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 17:40 Hi!

Has anyone got a full list of the branches when they had the maximum number (439 I think!) Open?

Website still up!

Chris Williams
The Motorway Services site has and maps from 2006 and 2008. Its in in PDF format and is sortable and available for download.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

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avtur wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 14:22
the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 13:22
Little Chef units ran on the reputation they developed locally
I'm not so sure, certainly not in the 1980s and early 90s when we used them regularly. By definition we would never be using a local outlet so wouldn't know what their reputation was. Their attraction was a recognised brand where you knew what you'd get in whatever unfamiliar part of the land you were.
Maybe a poor choice of words by me but the location of some LC outlets meant that they becasue firm favourites with a local regular clientele. You may never have used a local outlet in that way but I can assure that outlets in some locations became very popuar destinations in their own right, not a stopping point on-route to a destination. If you used them only when travelling then I understand you would not have seen this.
I have some idea what you mean. I wouldn't say they were necessarily above average, but, having been somewhere with my parents in the '80s and '90s, we often used LCs on our journey home that were 20 miles or less away in Herts and Beds.
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Re: Where are the Little Chefs going?

Post by avtur »

trickstat wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 19:35
avtur wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 14:22
the cheesecake man wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2020 13:22


I'm not so sure, certainly not in the 1980s and early 90s when we used them regularly. By definition we would never be using a local outlet so wouldn't know what their reputation was. Their attraction was a recognised brand where you knew what you'd get in whatever unfamiliar part of the land you were.
Maybe a poor choice of words by me but the location of some LC outlets meant that they becasue firm favourites with a local regular clientele. You may never have used a local outlet in that way but I can assure that outlets in some locations became very popuar destinations in their own right, not a stopping point on-route to a destination. If you used them only when travelling then I understand you would not have seen this.
I have some idea what you mean. I wouldn't say they were necessarily above average, but, having been somewhere with my parents in the '80s and '90s, we often used LCs on our journey home that were 20 miles or less away in Herts and Beds.
In many ways they didn't have to be above average, they simply had to offer a warm welcome and make their customers feel valued. At one time Mrs Avtur ran one of the most profitble outlets in the LC estate, the profitability was all down to local regular repeat business, simply because she and her staff made customer welcome. The consistency of the product was part of that but the consistency of welcome and service was far more important. Such was the relationship that grew that we have been receiving Christmas cards from her regular customers throughout our married life, over 30 years despite the fact that Mrs Avtur left LC 25 years ago. That's what you call customer loyality, but it doesn't happen today.
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