Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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christopher p spence
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by christopher p spence »

:roll: :roll: The leighton buzzard bypass (A505) is planned to be part of an east west route via Aylesbury/Oxford. when or how is yet to be determined maybe this is another piecemeal way of sneaking this upon us as i have heard that the western end is still to be part of the A505? :roll: :roll:
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owen b
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

christopher p spence wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 14:56 :roll: :roll: The leighton buzzard bypass (A505) is planned to be part of an east west route via Aylesbury/Oxford. when or how is yet to be determined
It was when it was built in the early 1990s but to the best of my knowledge any such plans were abandoned decades ago and not resurrected. It could form part of a spur from the Oxbridge expressway to M1 J11A if the expressway took the southernmost route option, but that expressway plan has now also been abandoned.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Phil »

Berk wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 19:27 If my idea became a proposal, would that be the least worst option you could choose??

The councillors may share your view that New Bedford Road, Stockingstone Road and Hitchin Road will get a larger share of local traffic, but that is probably already true today, and surely isn’t likely to change if a bypass is built.

What is worse is building the western half of the route before the eastern half has even been planned properly. I don’t think they should allow it to proceed until then. Otherwise it will result in this nightmare scenario.
Get with the times! The instruction from the Westminster Government is that more development, particularly house can only ever be good - and as such councils are legally bound to deliver the necessary infrastructure to facilitate it ASAP. Any council trying to hold out for better / more expansive / coherent scheme will get overruled in court or by the Secretary of sate on appeal.

The current scheme from the M1 to the A6 is primarily to open up new land for housing development - the fact it performs part of a potential northern by-pass is very much a secondary consideration.

Also, as with every other local authority in the country Luton are already have a hard time trying to fund everything the are legally obliged to do (Child protection, care for the elderly, etc) let alone having spare cash to blow on large road schemes. In reality the only way you would ever get a Luton northern by-pass right across to the A505 is if the DfT decided to fund it - and as they drooped any interest in the A505 forming part of the strategic highway network decades ago that simply isn't going to happen.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by christopher p spence »

This is a recent thing i picked up in the last year as it was something to do with negotiations being carried out with lord Rothschild who owns the land to the west of railway line at Linslade. The planners want to connect the new route at a roundabout just the other side of the railway bridge in a totally new concept so as to not involve the villagers in Wing.
The long term plan is to connect up with the A505 s/e of Hitchin and join onto the Little Wymondley bypass with the route taking over the A602 up to the A1 (M) junction 8 so creating a new trunk route from Norfolk to the west country, but it appears to me in that typical British Government style they will build it in little bits to hide the fact and as usual cost the tax payer more than if they did it in one go!
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

christopher p spence wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 04:13 The long term plan is to connect up with the A505 s/e of Hitchin and join onto the Little Wymondley bypass with the route taking over the A602 up to the A1 (M) junction 8 so creating a new trunk route from Norfolk to the west country
I'd love to see the evidence that any such plan currently exists.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by trickstat »

owen b wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 09:51
christopher p spence wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 04:13 The long term plan is to connect up with the A505 s/e of Hitchin and join onto the Little Wymondley bypass with the route taking over the A602 up to the A1 (M) junction 8 so creating a new trunk route from Norfolk to the west country
I'd love to see the evidence that any such plan currently exists.
Same here. So many questions arise.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by marconaf »

owen b wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 16:35
christopher p spence wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 14:56 :roll: :roll: The leighton buzzard bypass (A505) is planned to be part of an east west route via Aylesbury/Oxford. when or how is yet to be determined
It was when it was built in the early 1990s but to the best of my knowledge any such plans were abandoned decades ago and not resurrected. It could form part of a spur from the Oxbridge expressway to M1 J11A if the expressway took the southernmost route option, but that expressway plan has now also been abandoned.
Was it? It’s a very poor road really, WS2 with a fair number of small roundabouts.

Granted it was expected to meet up with the Wing bypass as a HQ route to (N of) Aylesbury but neither of these roads/plans was or is on the same scale as say the A421/428 improvements M1-A1 (Bedford bypass) and the Caxton Gibbet-Girton which are GSJ DCs.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

marconaf wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 21:50
owen b wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 16:35
christopher p spence wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 14:56 :roll: :roll: The leighton buzzard bypass (A505) is planned to be part of an east west route via Aylesbury/Oxford. when or how is yet to be determined
It was when it was built in the early 1990s but to the best of my knowledge any such plans were abandoned decades ago and not resurrected. It could form part of a spur from the Oxbridge expressway to M1 J11A if the expressway took the southernmost route option, but that expressway plan has now also been abandoned.
Was it? It’s a very poor road really, WS2 with a fair number of small roundabouts.

Granted it was expected to meet up with the Wing bypass as a HQ route to (N of) Aylesbury but neither of these roads/plans was or is on the same scale as say the A421/428 improvements M1-A1 (Bedford bypass) and the Caxton Gibbet-Girton which are GSJ DCs.
Yes it was. The Roads to Prosperity plan of 1989 included a dual carriageway route from Aylesbury to the A12, which as I understand it would have gone south of Leighton Buzzard and north of Dunstable and Luton. Of course the Leighton Buzzard southern bypass would have required rebuilding to a higher standard as part of such a plan, but it's certainly in the same corridor and probably more or less on the same line as the Roads to Prosperity plan.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by marconaf »

Ok, rebuilding it then (Roads for Prosperity timeline) seems odd as it was quite new at that point.

Why end at Aylesbury?, hardly like that is well connected onwards (other than later to South), presumably the A41 to Bicester & M40 would have been significantly improved also? Or another axis?
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

marconaf wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 23:25 Ok, rebuilding it then (Roads for Prosperity timeline) seems odd as it was quite new at that point.

Why end at Aylesbury?, hardly like that is well connected onwards (other than later to South), presumably the A41 to Bicester & M40 would have been significantly improved also? Or another axis?
I don't claim to be an expert on this, when I refer to a D2 route from Aylesbury to the A12 I'm only quoting my yellowing original copy of the Roads to Prosperity reporting in the Times, May 19th 1989. I've got a vague recollection that elsewhere it was referred to as the Thame to A12 proposal, which would certainly make sense linking to the M40 towards Oxford and then the A420 towards Swindon which was also to be dualled as part of Roads to Prosperity.

The Leighton Buzzard southern bypass was opened around 1993. Whether it was planned with subsequent dualling in mind as part of a bigger east-west strategic route I don't know for sure, but it seems plausible given its good alignment and generous width, and in any case I think it's fairly clear that the intention of the Roads to Prosperity plan was to incorporate it into the route.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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Central Bedfordshire continue to progress plans for the M1-A6 link road, and are seeking money from central govt: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-56931906

Scheme page: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _link_road
Layout: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _size.jpeg
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Micro The Maniac »

jackal wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:57 Central Bedfordshire continue to progress plans for the M1-A6 link road, and are seeking money from central govt: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-56931906

Scheme page: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _link_road
Layout: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _size.jpeg
Seems a fair enough proposal... although it would (IMHO) be better built as a D2 and GSJed - or at least built to the south of the allocated corridor, allowing a second carrageway to be added afterwards?

Given that west of the roundabout is the A5 (which terminates at the roundabout), presumably, this link would also be A5 ?
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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Micro The Maniac wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 13:11
jackal wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:57 Central Bedfordshire continue to progress plans for the M1-A6 link road, and are seeking money from central govt: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-56931906

Scheme page: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _link_road
Layout: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _size.jpeg
Seems a fair enough proposal... although it would (IMHO) be better built as a D2 and GSJed - or at least built to the south of the allocated corridor, allowing a second carrageway to be added afterwards?

Given that west of the roundabout is the A5 (which terminates at the roundabout), presumably, this link would also be A5 ?
Surely A6....
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

From what I can see the latest announcements only confirm my previously stated view, in fact it's even worse as it's now confirmed that it's nearly all S2 :
owen b wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 23:47 .....on the face of it, it's very bad. It's an at grade S2/D2 through green belt to enable 4,000 new houses to be built. It will inevitably add traffic to already congested routes across Luton, specifically the A6 New Bedford Road, A5228 Stockingstone Road and A505 Hitchin Road, which will be the de facto rat run for the missing link from the A6 north of Luton to the A505 east of Luton. The only question it answers is "What is the cheapest road we can build to enable an attractive area of green belt to be ruined?"

Frankly, this proposal does not support the missing link 9ie. A6 north of Luton to A505 north east of Luton] ever being built. The missing link would go through an area of very high environmental / landscape value where only a very expensive road probably with a Baldock bypass style tunnel would be acceptable (as per comments I made in this thread ten years ago :shock: ). The current proposal is quite obviously not intended for longer distance traffic and will probably be inadequate from the start, let alone with any additional traffic being added to it if the missing link is ever built.
This is Central Beds crapping on their boundary with Luton. It's hardly surprising Luton objected. This is not in any useful sense a bypass intended to reduce congestion in a bypassed area, this is a new road whose primary objective is to enable development, whose benefits will nearly all accrue to Central Beds and whose disbenefits will nearly all accrue to Luton.

If there's any logic in the universe the road will be numbered as the A6.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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c2R wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 18:19
Micro The Maniac wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 13:11
jackal wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:57 Central Bedfordshire continue to progress plans for the M1-A6 link road, and are seeking money from central govt: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-56931906

Scheme page: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _link_road
Layout: https://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/ ... _size.jpeg
Seems a fair enough proposal... although it would (IMHO) be better built as a D2 and GSJed - or at least built to the south of the allocated corridor, allowing a second carrageway to be added afterwards?

Given that west of the roundabout is the A5 (which terminates at the roundabout), presumably, this link would also be A5 ?
Surely A6....
Yes, you'd have two Axs terminating at the same roundabout (curiously the plans complete the dogbonisation of the dumbbell). Is that unique?

The existing A6 into Luton would need a new number - a four digit A road perhaps.

Were the bypass extended from the A6 to A505 the whole thing (including the Dunstable section) would presumably be renumbered A505. So the A5 and A6 would then be shortened further.

While we're at it maybe we could sort out the spontaneous switch from A505 to A4146 at Leighton Buzzard...
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

jackal wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 18:59
c2R wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 18:19
Micro The Maniac wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 13:11

Seems a fair enough proposal... although it would (IMHO) be better built as a D2 and GSJed - or at least built to the south of the allocated corridor, allowing a second carrageway to be added afterwards?

Given that west of the roundabout is the A5 (which terminates at the roundabout), presumably, this link would also be A5 ?
Surely A6....
Yes, you'd have two Axs terminating at the same roundabout (curiously the plans complete the dogbonisation of the dumbbell). Is that unique?

The existing A6 into Luton would need a new number - a four digit A road perhaps.

Were the bypass extended from the A6 to A505 the whole thing (including the Dunstable section) would presumably be renumbered A505. So the A5 and A6 would then be shortened further.

While we're at it maybe we could sort out the spontaneous switch from A505 to A4146 at Leighton Buzzard...
For the current A6 in Luton the A6129 has some historical logic to it, as the B653 from Hatfield to Luton was the A6129 for a while and the A6 currently starts close to the Luton end of the B653.

Regarding roads coming off M1 J11A, I've always liked the idea of both the A5 and the A6 coming off this junction. It would have a certain symmetry to it.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Chris5156 »

I'm not convinced this needs the little cars drawn all over it, but it's a nice plan otherwise! :laugh:
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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Bath needs one also.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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owen b wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 19:15 For the current A6 in Luton the A6129 has some historical logic to it, as the B653 from Hatfield to Luton was the A6129 for a while and the A6 currently starts close to the Luton end of the B653.

Regarding roads coming off M1 J11A, I've always liked the idea of both the A5 and the A6 coming off this junction. It would have a certain symmetry to it.
A1081 this is the number given to the A6 south of Luton. Also the A6129 would be out of zone
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

JohnnyMo wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:52
owen b wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 19:15 For the current A6 in Luton the A6129 has some historical logic to it, as the B653 from Hatfield to Luton was the A6129 for a while and the A6 currently starts close to the Luton end of the B653.

Regarding roads coming off M1 J11A, I've always liked the idea of both the A5 and the A6 coming off this junction. It would have a certain symmetry to it.
A1081 this is the number given to the A6 south of Luton. Also the A6129 would be out of zone
I thought of the A1081, but that is the number for the airport spur, and I'm not sure that having another branch heading off through town would be a good idea. Maybe the solution is to have the A1081 as the old A6 throughout (ie. Barnet to the north side of Luton), and renumber the airport spur.

Regarding the numbering zones, I am rather lost as to where the zone boundaries are these days what with the A5 and A6 having numerous renumberings and reroutings in these parts. I would have thought that if the A6 heads off to M1 J11a that Luton west of the present day A6 as far as the M1 becomes part of the 6 zone, but I defer to any road numbering zone experts on this.

Actually I realised another problem with the A6129 : there is a remaining relic of it between Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City, so I suppose resurrecting it in Luton wouldn't be ideal for that reason alone.
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