Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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owen b
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

Right, well I've been to the exhibition and talked to a helpful chap (the rep) from Bedfordshire CC. I was mainly interested in the Luton proposals as opposed to the proposals for access to Dunstable and Houghton Regis from the proposed M1/A5 link road.

A few points :
a) The proposals are obviously aimed at purely local needs, especially in light of the development plans to 2021 which involve a lot of new land take around the northern perimeter of Dunstable, Houghton Regis and Luton all the way from the A5 to the airport. Any impacts on through strategic traffic were presented as incidental. Forget POLO.
b) Options were compared to a "do nothing" scenario, where doing nothing meant doing the development but not the transport improvements. A "no new development" option was not presented - the rep told me that the council was being told to assume that the development would be happening (by government diktat, seemingly). "Improve public transport" was presented as an option and compared very well to the road options (surprise, surprise). The brochure summarises these findings.
b) There were no costings, not even indicative. However, the rep revealed the reason for the consideration of the brown option. This option, on the face of it, has lots of disadvantages and precious little to recommend it over the alternatives. However, it would be much cheaper as it would avoid having to build a tunnel under the steep and environmentally precious slope behind Stopsley High School.
c) Detailed designs were not presented. Junction design had not been chosen, but the rep confirmed that both flat and grade separated options were being considered. In particular, a GSJ was being seriously considered for the red route at the A505 junction. The various bypass options would definitely be dualled.
d) Detailed traffic model results were presented. Traffic flows would reduce in Luton on many of the central and cross town routes, especially the horribly busy Stockingstone Road (the urban A road connecting the A505 and A6 about one mile north of the town centre). Traffic would also reduce on the Hitchin <-> Barton B655 and minor roads north of Luton.
e) The traffic models in turn implied an outer eastern bypass, which the rep confirmed. The route shown threaded its way between the airport terminal and the runway (!!!). The rep suggested there would be a developer funded tunnel. The route tucked in close to the edge of the proposed new development at Cockernhoe and joined the A505 close to the eastern end of the black route.
f) The models implied, and the rep confirmed that there would be no intermediate junctions between the A505 and A6, and that there would probably be a junction with the road between Lower Sundon and Sundon Park (about 1km east of J11a). My own assumption is that the B579 would be rerouted north of Leagrave railway station to this junction, as the existing route involves a narrow, low and congested railway bridge.
g) The traffic model included a scenario of an M1<->A6 link without the A6<->A505 link. This option does not feature in the brochure.
h) The rep suggested that dualling Vauxhall Way would probably be necessary with the red route, but not necessarily otherwise.
i) No timescales were presented.

My preference, based on the very incomplete evidence so far? No development, no roads, I think. But that's not an option, so I'll take moving the development at Cockernhoe to north of Houghton Regis and the inner (red) route, plus dualling Vauxhall Way, please. But that's not an option, either. OK, then, I'll take the development and the red route and dualling Vauxhall Way. I think the outer (black) route is probably a non starter on landscape and environmental grounds, and the brown route is a poor compromise which will satisfy nobody.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by CJ »

Well, the outer black route seems like the best route because it's far away from the residential areas, thus reducing noise, and also provides a more direct route for east-west traffic. But as you say the Greens wouldn't be very happy with it -- it's still my favourite option though.

The red route has the problem of forcing all the strategic east-west traffic through the urban dual carriageway in Stopsley, which simply can't be a good idea for the residents, air quality or congestion.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

It's a really tricky one. Maybe I'm too close to it to be properly objective. The black (outer) route is clearly the best for strategic through traffic, and links up best with any future outer eastern bypass. BUT : i) it really is hopeless in landscape terms - D2 on a new line across an AONB (some of the very best countryside in Beds / Herts); ii) it would attract strategic through traffic which is obviously not the intention at all - this is not a strategic scheme (no HA involvement); iii) relief on some roads in Luton would be less, as the route is more of a detour for local traffic than an inner route (it doesn't tie in with Vauxhall Way). I just can't see the black route ever getting past public enquiry, or Swampy and his ilk.

I agree that the red route is far from ideal. It will be expensive with that tunnel, it is a long way round for traffic to/from Hitchin and it will put more traffic onto the A505 at Stopsley (although that's a reasonably decent stetch of urban D2). I think it's the lesser of the evils.

I think the real problem is that the east side of Luton is simply a bad place to put more development. It's a long way from major transport links. There's so much development planned in this area you might as well just be done with it and build a new town, most likely between Toddington, Houghton Regis and Hockcliffe.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/lut-news/On ... 5061555.jp
Most people favour new road away from outskirts of Luton


A route away from the outskirts of Luton has emerged as the frontrunner for the northern bypass, following a public consultation.

More than 2,000 responses were sent in during the consultation in January, with more than 1,700 stating preference for the outer bypass route, which would run close to the village of Lilley before joining the A505.

About 350 people said they would prefer the inner bypass option, which would see the road run close to the edge of Luton, joining the A505 in Round Green or Stopsley.

The option of huge improvements to public transport, instead of a new road, was given the thumbs up by about 650 people. At a meeting of Luton Borough Council's executive on Monday night, councillors voted for the outer route as their preferred option.

Councillor Roy Davis, in charge of regeneration at the council, said : "The purpose of the consultation was to find out what people thought of these options, including if people thought we shouldn't have one at all.

"Quite clearly a very large proportion of people who responded responded favourably to the idea of a bypass - about three quarters. An abundance of people feel we should go ahead and do this as part of the larger plan for the growth area. We do seem to have a consensus.

"The concept of a bypass in that area has been on the town map since 1935. I hope it doesn't take 100 years before we get it."

The bypass, if built, will link a proposed Junction 11a on the M1 with the A6 and the A505.

A report to the council's executive committee said the outer route would cost about £105 million to build, making it nearly £100 million cheaper than the inner route, which would have meant building a a section of tunnel at Bradgers Hill.

Two 500-metre tunnels will still be needed for the outer route, to minimise the environmental impact in the Galley Hill and Ward's Wood area, but the report said that even with this measure the preferred option would still be cheaper.

A formal decision on the project should be made at the meeting of the Luton and South Beds Joint Committee on Friday, March 20.
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owen b
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

It's all been very quiet on this subject of late, but finally there's a hint of some news, and it's not good. This document http://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/I ... .pdf#False is now suggesting that the Luton northern bypass will only be from M1 J11A to the A6, with no extension to the A505 at Stopsley or Lilley. There will still be 2,900 new homes north of Luton and another 5,600 north of Houghton Regis. I think this is just about the worst of all worlds - lots of extra development but without a complete Luton northern bypass. The new link road would dump loads of Luton traffic from the M1 on the A6 through northern Luton and increase rat running from the A6 north of Luton to Hitchin and the A1(M).
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by c2R »

ah, so as expected; do the easy bit then worry about the rest in 2031 and beyond....
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Stevie D »

owen b wrote:It's all been very quiet on this subject of late, but finally there's a hint of some news, and it's not good. This document http://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/I ... .pdf#False is now suggesting that the Luton northern bypass will only be from M1 J11A to the A6, with no extension to the A505 at Stopsley or Lilley. There will still be 2,900 new homes north of Luton and another 5,600 north of Houghton Regis. I think this is just about the worst of all worlds - lots of extra development but without a complete Luton northern bypass. The new link road would dump loads of Luton traffic from the M1 on the A6 through northern Luton and increase rat running from the A6 north of Luton to Hitchin and the A1(M).
The road will also link to the A505 west of Luton (at or near the A5 junction), so it isn't quite as scaled down as you've implied.

While it's disappointing, I'm not sure it's a huge surprise, or necessarily a calamitous loss. The area round Warden Hill looks a lot more environmentally sensitive than the area where they are building the road, so extending it to the A505 would be a lot more destructive.

Traffic heading north from Hitchin can use A600 and A507 to avoid Luton, and traffic heading south can use A1(M) and A414. Traffic from the eastern edge of Luton can use A5228 and A6 to get to the northern by-pass and avoid the town centre, or use the A1081 to get to the M1 round the south side.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by c2R »

Stevie D wrote:
Traffic heading north from Hitchin can use A600 and A507 to avoid Luton, and traffic heading south can use A1(M) and A414.
Traffic in this part of the world isn't quite so amenable to just using the routes you suggest - the problem is that Stevenage is a fairly sizeable settlement, and traffic wants to get from there to the M1... and while some uses the 507, much uses the 505 and barton-le-clay, or navigates through Luton, or goes further out of the way and up to the A14. What doesn't help is that the 507 is a mess of piecemeal bypasses and roundabouts all built on the cheap, with added housing estates and more roundabouts going in year by year; and the A1 south is at capacity during peak hours already....

You're right though that the warden hill area is sensitive; and therefore pretty expensive tunneling would probably be needed, or literally hugging the edge of the housing estates that make up the north of Luton there.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by owen b »

Stevie D wrote: The road will also link to the A505 west of Luton (at or near the A5 junction), so it isn't quite as scaled down as you've implied.
That's the Dunstable northern bypass which I didn't say anything about http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/4472.aspx . Lumping Dunstable in with Luton tends to produce the same reaction in locals as lumping Wolverhampton in with Birmingham or Stockport with Manchester :) .
Stevie D wrote: The area round Warden Hill looks a lot more environmentally sensitive than the area where they are building the road, so extending it to the A505 would be a lot more destructive.
Very true, however I think that leaving a missing link around the NE quadrant of Luton from the A6 to the A505 will lead to further pressure on already overloaded roads in Luton as well as rat running via the country lanes around Barton and Lilley.
Stevie D wrote: Traffic from the eastern edge of Luton can use A5228 and A6 to get to the northern by-pass and avoid the town centre
The A6 from the northern edge of Luton to the A5228 could probably be widened to S4 or at a pinch even D2 without too much devastation, however the A5228 is an S2 with a lot of property frontages, an already very congested signal controlled crossroads and a steep hill. At peak times it already takes typically 10-15 minutes just to get across the lights at the New Bedford Road junction. Building the northern bypass without the north eastern section can only worsen this already over capacity road.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by A303Paul »

Leaving this gap will vastly improve the environment, especially for the good people of Lilley, who will find themselves in the middle of an S1 1/2 trunk road sandwiched between highish quality D2s linking the A1(m) and M1.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by thatapanydude »

Sorry to drag up an old thread but it seems like some progress is taking shape on a Northern bypass albeit mostly of S2 standard linking the M1 and A6.

http://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/t ... rview.aspx

Quite frankly it's a real disappointment that the scheme will be mostly S2 coupled with roundabouts for developments considering the possible strategic nature that a route from Stevenage to the M1 could be.

Ideally a M1 to A6 link should be D2 throughout, with provision to extending to the A505 at Lilley. I would also dual up to Barton or even Clophill (only 4 miles or so of filling gaps),giving London traffic from Bedford and neighbouring areas a shorter route to the M1.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Euan »

thatapanydude wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 16:56 Sorry to drag up an old thread but it seems like some progress is taking shape on a Northern bypass albeit mostly of S2 standard linking the M1 and A6.

http://www.centralbedfordshire.gov.uk/t ... rview.aspx

Quite frankly it's a real disappointment that the scheme will be mostly S2 coupled with roundabouts for developments considering the possible strategic nature that a route from Stevenage to the M1 could be.

Ideally a M1 to A6 link should be D2 throughout, with provision to extending to the A505 at Lilley. I would also dual up to Barton or even Clophill (only 4 miles or so of filling gaps),giving London traffic from Bedford and neighbouring areas a shorter route to the M1.
I would agree with that, at the moment there is really only the A505 providing a connection between Stevenage and the M1 coming from the Midlands which looks like quite an awkward drive through Luton. The northern bypass would clearly be far more effective if it were to go between the A6 and the A505 as well. I would think that there would be more pressure to improve the nearby roads if the bypass did eventually become D2, such as dualling the A6 to Barton or giving the A505 between Luton and Hitchin primary status.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Truvelo »

So long as the eastern side of the A6 roundabout is protected from development there is always the opportunity to extend it to the A505. The last thing we need is planning permission to be granted for a supermarket which would screw things up. Think of A380 Newton Abbot :@

Building it only as far as the A6 may still bring some benefits such as relieving the Sharpenhoe ratrun. Traffic may want to head south from Barton to reach the M1 at J11a instead of going through Sharpenhoe and Harlington at J12. However building it as far as the A505 would completely free the B655 of ratrunning. This is something the council should really consider because sacrificing a small amount of the golf course and working around the NIMBY problem in the area would really pay dividends. I do appreciate that if the link to the A505 was built it would almost guarantee the land between Stopsley and the new road will be built on with Butterfield Business Park being massively expanded.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by M19 »

Needs to be planned as part of an expressway route that would connect the A120 and the Oxford - Cambridge Expressway, then possibly connect across to Swindon, as an A420 expressway.

Hardly likely though, and more likely to be one of those pseudo bypasses with a million roundabouts paid for by developers because there is no money for real infrastructure that serves a more strategic purpose.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Phil »

M19 wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:26 Needs to be planned as part of an expressway route that would connect the A120 and the Oxford - Cambridge Expressway, then possibly connect across to Swindon, as an A420 expressway.
That won't happen for as long as its up to the local council to push it forward, they are simply too cash strapped these days. What improvements you do get have to be compromised by the need to maximise development (to unlock Central Government grants or developer funding), plus the decision makers are vulnerable to a backlash from local residents so cannot be ambitious as projects steered / funded by Central Government.

Basically the Whitehall based machine doesn't seem care about funding strategic road schemes unless they are Smart motorways these days. We have had lots of hot air over the past decade about expressways and the need for greater east west connectivity, but precious little in terms of action (feasibility studies commissioned by the DfT from their mates in the consulting industry that are big on waffle and small on specific proposals do not count as evidence of progress)
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Berk »

This is why I keep making the point that as a country, we have spent a very large amount of the roads budget on smart motorway schemes. And everyone on here keeps saying they’re marvellous.

That’s fine, I don’t dispute they make some contribution. But how do they help non-motorway users get about?? Or provide direct access routes to motorways themselves??

We need strategic funding for primary routes too, as well as the trunk road network.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by KeithW »

Berk wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 01:20 This is why I keep making the point that as a country, we have spent a very large amount of the roads budget on smart motorway schemes. And everyone on here keeps saying they’re marvellous.

That’s fine, I don’t dispute they make some contribution. But how do they help non-motorway users get about?? Or provide direct access routes to motorways themselves??

We need strategic funding for primary routes too, as well as the trunk road network.
Well there are currently two connected issues here.

The first is improvements to roads of local importance such as the York Ring Road which are the responsibility of the Local Authority Highways Department.
The second is roads that are part of the Strategic Road Network that are managed by Highways England such as the A64 from Leeds to Scarborough.

They are connected as the situation around York shows where the A64 forms the southern part of the ring road.

Many of the Strategic roads are not motorways but have had considerable investment and become high quality D2 roads built to a standard that is close to that of motorways. Obvious examples are the A1 Western Bypass at Newcastle, the A11, A12, A38. A30, A421, A428 and A50.

The problem is there is a gap between the two classes of route which is why the Major Roads Initiative has been launched to fill the gap. As I understand it hese roads will remain the responsibility of the Local Authorities when it comes to maintaining them but central government funding will be available for their funding. How well it actually work remains to be seen.

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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

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Article on BBC News here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-49673113

Plans for £64.6m Luton bypass win backing -
A new £64.6m link road opposed by conservation groups, residents and local authorities has been approved.

Central Bedfordshire Council's development management committee backed the M1 to A6 Link Road on green belt land north of Luton.

Opponents argued it would bring "gridlock" to the area.

A final decision will be made by the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government.

The 2.75-mile (4.4km) road will have single and dual carriageway stretches and a 50mph
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Micro The Maniac »

c2R wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 18:27 Article on BBC News here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-49673113

Plans for £64.6m Luton bypass win backing
Ho hum...
The 2.75-mile road will have single and dual carriageway stretches and a 50mph speed limit.
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Re: Does Luton need a northern bypass?

Post by Berk »

...and that a signalised junction is being slapped about ⅔ of the way along it. Why?? Yes, it’ll probably be a new extension to Sundon, or something like that, but signals, seriously?? :x :roll:

Interesting that the scheme is being proposed by Central Bedfordshire, and Luton is opposed to it.

Presumably because it’s not a complete route - the eastern extension to the A505 will have to follow later.

A Luton councillor claimed that it would “make even more east-west traffic use New Bedford Road, Stockingstone Road and Hitchin Road, rather than the signposted route”. Doesn’t he think they do that already?? There are very few A505-A6 routes as it is.
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