A34 Alderley Edge Bypass

martin2345uk · Post by **martin2345uk** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:01

The Alderley Edge bypass saw its first (I think?) fatal head-on collision at the end of last month, in which a young boy lost his life. From what I could make out, some dude tried to overtake on the blind dip under the first bridge heading southbound and ploughed into a car coming the other way.

Very sad, I never risk overtaking on that road unless behind a 20mph tractor..

Haydn1971 · Post by **Haydn1971** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:32

We were discussing this a few weeks back, whilst I'd take issue with the phrase "blind dip", having looked at the alignment previously, I concluded that the design speed was indeed lower that I'd expect for such a road, which is to be fair recognised with the lower speed limit.

Road deaths are frequently blamed on the highway geometry and one could argue that geometry played a part in this death, but more so, the driver behaviour would appear to be a major factor.

Welcome to Sabre !

chris486 · Post by **chris486** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:49

This road is not especially well aligned and it should have been dualled.

This footage was taken not long after the bypass opened - the car in a rush is a 1972 Rover P6 3500S.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeP8b16NF_8

PeterA5145 · Post by **PeterA5145** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:04

We've often been told that modern practice is to design S2 roads with a clear distinction between overtaking and non-overtaking sections, but this road seems to violate that principle, with a lot of stretches where slightly marginal overtaking is possible but no obvious full-on overtaking straights. The railway overbridge does restrict forward visibility in the "blind dip". I've often overtaken slow lorries, Micras etc along there, but if the car in front was doing 50 I'd tend to leave it.

Haydn1971 wrote:We were discussing this a few weeks back, whilst I'd take issue with the phrase "blind dip", having looked at the alignment previously, I concluded that the design speed was indeed lower that I'd expect for such a road, which is to be fair recognised with the lower speed limit.

It doesn't have a lower speed limit, it's all NSL. At a quiet time I've done it with the cruise set at 70 all the way

RickyB_uk · Post by **RickyB_uk** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:04

Haydn1971 wrote:We were discussing this a few weeks back, whilst I'd take issue with the phrase "blind dip"

Coming southbound you cannot see any of the road beyond the dip due to the rail bridge being in the way

Haydn1971 wrote:having looked at the alignment previously, I concluded that the design speed was indeed lower that I'd expect for such a road, which is to be fair recognised with the lower speed limit.

It's NSL(60), apart from about 100 yards at the north end where it meets the roundabout where it goes down to 40.

Haydn1971 wrote:Road deaths are frequently blamed on the highway geometry and one could argue that geometry played a part in this death, but more so, the driver behaviour would appear to be a major factor.

As discussed in the other thread, it's been built with a series of sweeping curves in the northernmost half, and the southern half is largely straight, but interrupted by the dip with rail bridge. Once beyond the dip you can overtake, but you've not got very long to do it. One car coming the other way at the wrong time can close the overtaking window shut. The alignment would be fine for a D/C, but not for a S/C

Haydn1971 · Post by **Haydn1971** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 13:53

NSL ? That's surprising, I had it in my mind it had a lower limit :-/ Any one care to point me to this "blind dip" ?

PeterA5145 · Post by **PeterA5145** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 15:14

Haydn1971 wrote:NSL ? That's surprising, I had it in my mind it had a lower limit :-/ Any one care to point me to this "blind dip" ?

It's here. I've actually had a drive down there this lunchtime to confirm some of the points made on this thread. Bear in mind that GSV gives a very wide-angle view of the world - in practice the railway bridge does seriously limit forward visibility for overtaking, as I'm sure RickyB will confirm.

With any limit below

it would be seriously narcoleptic...

M19 · Post by **M19** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 20:56

There's something about this road that just shouts out "below standard". It just feels poor in design and quality. A lot of new S2 roads however, built over the last 10-15 years or so also feel low in quality. It's as if we've regressed backward somehow, when we could have advanced much further.

PeterA5145 · Post by **PeterA5145** » Sat Oct 05, 2013 21:06

I reckon it's built along the line that was originally planned for a D2, for which it would have been fine.

avtur · Post by **avtur** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 16:16

Haydn1971 wrote: ..... Any one care to point me to this "blind dip" ?

I would suggest there are two, one towards the northern end (where the fatal accident occurred) which carries a road and the other which has been mentioned here is the rail bridge towards the southerly end. Both bridges reduce the forward visibility required for a safe overtake.

Living nearby I travel this road frequently and have witnessed many poor overtakes (usually carried by drivers of high powered cars who lack the skill to drive them - there are plenty of them in that locality!!)

The fact that this is called a 'by pass' seems to invoke a mindset in some drivers where they have to get from A to B as quickly as possible and at almost any cost. However even if you do get caught behind a slow mover this road it does offer a better progress than the original route through the centre of Alderley Edge.

Also, for all the progress that can be made on this stretch of road if continuing on towards Congleton the next few miles of the A34 offers precious few overtaking opportunities so to some extent the bypass has just moved the bottleneck!

Enceladus · Post by **Enceladus** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 17:12

From the vid it looks like a good bit of road with traffic levels that would warrant a DC.

Why does the A34 have two incarnations - one as a major cross country link from Winchester to Oxford and the other much further North as a shadow to thye M6?

chris486 · Post by **chris486** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 17:19

Enceladus wrote:From the vid it looks like a good bit of road with traffic levels that would warrant a DC.

Why does the A34 have two incarnations - one as a major cross country link from Winchester to Oxford and the other much further North as a shadow to thye M6?

This is because a large section south of Brum was renumbered when the M40 was built. It isn't too hard to follow through Henly in Arden etc - it's the A3400.

chris486 · Post by **chris486** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 17:23

avtur wrote:Living nearby I travel this road frequently and have witnessed many poor overtakes (usually carried by drivers of high powered cars who lack the skill to drive them - there are plenty of them in that locality!!)

I always thought (hoped?) it would be two professional footballers in a head-on with no other road users involved.

I loved it, and so did my Rover V8 when it first opened but I have gone off it now - too many arseholes, too many close calls.

Haydn1971 · Post by **Haydn1971** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 17:47

I'm stunned.... Have you chaps never driven a good B road in the hills....

Blind dip ? Rubbish

Bryn666 · Post by **Bryn666** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 17:54

Crap driving standards again it seems...

Chris5156 · Post by **Chris5156** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 18:18

avtur wrote:The fact that this is called a 'by pass' seems to invoke a mindset in some drivers where they have to get from A to B as quickly as possible and at almost any cost.

I don't think for a second that its name has anything to do with it. People would drive no differently on this road if it was called the "Alderley Edge Relief Road" or "Jubilee Way" or "Susan".

chris486 · Post by **chris486** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 18:49

nowster · Post by **nowster** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 19:00

Haydn1971 wrote:Blind dip ? Rubbish

Hidden dip. Blind summit.

Truvelo · Post by **Truvelo** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 19:27

There's nothing quite like driving a V8 and being able to pick off traffic at will but the final overtake on that video is cutting it fine

chris486 · Post by **chris486** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 19:46

Truvelo wrote:There's nothing quite like driving a V8 and being able to pick off traffic at will but the final overtake on that video is cutting it fine

My long suffering mechanic observed at the time:

You are SPEEDING. BULLYING and INTIMIDATING other road users !!!
I find this most agreeable and entertaining in every way possible

SABRE