A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

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SouthWest Philip
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by SouthWest Philip »

MatthewB6323 wrote:
NICK 647063 wrote: So LAR traffic that has come on the A168 from wetherby will be sent where? i just always thought they always put a LAR in these days?
Along local roads via the dual carriageway A168, up to the A61. The reasoning is included in the inspectors' report, which is online here. LARs are only included where it is thought to be cost-effective; the Highways Agency believe that the right of way for non-motorised users, however long-established, can be abolished between the Dishforth and Baldersby junctions because they, and local users, no longer use the road in substantial numbers.
Would the road through Rainton village be suitable for upgrading to, say, B-road status to serve as the LAR?
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by MatthewB6323 »

SouthWest Philip wrote: Would the road through Rainton village be suitable for upgrading to, say, B-road status to serve as the LAR?
I don't think that there is any intention declared yet for the LAR to be a classified road on this stretch; but some of the LAR functions will be provided by the road through Rainton village, though traffic heading for the A61 will either have to go further east, through Baldersby, or west and meet the A61 near Ripon. The number of non-motorway traffic journeys per day between the Dishforth and Baldersby junctions was in single figures, I think. North Yorkshire County Council ISTR favoured an LAR, as did a local business.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by NICK 647063 »

Just been reading the report it makes more sense now about the LAR here is what it says:

Local access roads
3.3.10 A continuous local road network parallel to the proposed motorway would be
provided by supplementing, where appropriate, existing local routes with new
roads. Wherever possible, in the interests of cost-minimisation, the new LARs
would re-use one of the existing carriageways of the A1.


So there will be a LAR all the way but at rainton it will make use of the existing roads so i take it, it will be signed as a LAR or maybe given a new number.
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wrinkly
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by wrinkly »

NICK 647063 wrote:So there will be a LAR all the way but at rainton it will make use of the existing roads so i take it, it will be signed as a LAR or maybe given a new number.
What do you mean by "signed as a LAR"? I'm not aware of any special signage for LARs, e.g. where sections of the A1 and A74 have been upgraded to motorway in the last 20 years.

It's possible that the LAR or some of it will be an A or B road, but it wouldn't surprise me if the minor roads around Rainton remain C roads, as at Aberford and Micklefield.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by NICK 647063 »

What do you mean by "signed as a LAR"? I'm not aware of any special signage for LARs, e.g. where sections of the A1 and A74 have been upgraded to motorway in the last 20 years.
All i meant was signed for non motorway traffic, like anyone coming up the A168 LAR to dishforth wanting to continue north needs a LAR route to follow so it must be signed.
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt »

MatthewB6323 wrote:the Highways rAgency believe that the right of way for non-motorised users, however long-established, can be abolished between the Dishforth and Baldersby junctions because they, and local users, no longer use the road in substantial numbers.
Wow, a sudden attack of common sense!
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by MatthewB6323 »

NICK 647063 wrote:
What do you mean by "signed as a LAR"? I'm not aware of any special signage for LARs, e.g. where sections of the A1 and A74 have been upgraded to motorway in the last 20 years.
All i meant was signed for non motorway traffic, like anyone coming up the A168 LAR to dishforth wanting to continue north needs a LAR route to follow so it must be signed.
Not necessarily so explicitly as this - it's unusual to see 'Non-motorway traffic' signed at a junction which is not a motorway terminal. I imagine that the signs will give destinations, probably including Rainton and Baldersby, and drivers will be directed on from those destinations.
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wrinkly
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by wrinkly »

I agree with Matthew. As far as I've noticed, "Non-motorway traffic" (or "Prohibited traffic") signs are usually only at GSJs where the straight-ahead route becomes a motorway, so that some classes of traffic need to turn off to avoid breaking the law. Once the Dishforth-Barton upgrade is complete, southbound traffic from Teesside on the A168 at Dishforth will be the only example in the area.
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Yep, it'll just be signed as the local destinations.

Perhaps there does need to be a signage standard which non-motorway traffic can follow, e.g. an explicitly signed "Avoiding the A1(M)" route.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by mehere »

Someone mentioned having or getting detailed plans, are you able to post them up here :)
oh and has work started then? i saw a mention of tree clearence?
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wrinkly
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by wrinkly »

Someone did mention tree clearance. I must go and look - it hadn't started in early Dec when I went to see the Cumberland Gap.
Work is due to start in March according to the Major Schemes Tracker (last revised in November), but tree clearance is often done ahead of the main start on a scheme, to avoid the bird nesting season.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by NICK 647063 »

Someone mentioned having or getting detailed plans, are you able to post them up here :)
oh and has work started then? i saw a mention of tree clearence?

yeah i'm still awaiting the plans but will upload them as soon as they come through!!

At the moment its all verge works and tree clearance works, was back from uni at my parents over the weekend, first time i have been back since xmas and lots of tree clearance has been done outside our house also all pegs in ground marking the new road, will be back home again in a few weeks so hopefully get some pics of before the major work starts also want to get pics of all the buildings that are to be demolished, i always wished i had some pics of the section south of the A168 before the work was done there so am not going to miss this chance, also was reading the inspectors report sounds like rainton services will go and shell which have a garage near our house which has to close have called for more services to be provided as once the upgrade is done there will be a big gap in the services, of course kirby hill could go ahead but also maybe near us at sinderby the ex little chef site could be a possible new MSA according to the report, only time will tell

but as soon as i get plans i will upload them.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by NICK 647063 »

Was just having a look on the H/A traffic england site and if you select the future roadworks thing it says for the A1 between the A168 and A684 work starts 1/3/09 until 1/2/12 so looks like its now under a month away!!
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt »

As I was approching the A61 junction n/b I didn't recognise it! All the trees around here have been cut down. Presuamably the A61 bridge is going to be completely replaced during the works?

The other large section of felling they've done is around Leeming Bar, on the eastern side opposite the 'services', all the trees are down there too, and I didn't think the inital stage was going to reach that far north.

It's also slightly depressing that although we've had works for I think around 5-years now, they are probably going to continue for another 8 or so :(
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by MatthewB6323 »

Mark Hewitt wrote:As I was approching the A61 junction n/b I didn't recognise it! All the trees around here have been cut down. Presuamably the A61 bridge is going to be completely replaced during the works?
The slip roads are certainly going to be entirely remodelled, and as the A1(M) passes north of the bridge its centre line will move to the east of the present road, as the LAR begins and then takes over the present northbound carriageway.
The other large section of felling they've done is around Leeming Bar, on the eastern side opposite the 'services', all the trees are down there too, and I didn't think the inital stage was going to reach that far north.
Further confirmation that the break in the two phases of the scheme is the point where the two were joined together in the first place. I suspect an arrangement on the ground comparable to that at Johnstonebridge before the A74(M) was extended north to Beattock.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt »

MatthewB6323 wrote: Further confirmation that the break in the two phases of the scheme is the point where the two were joined together in the first place. I suspect an arrangement on the ground comparable to that at Johnstonebridge before the A74(M) was extended north to Beattock.
Which was?

The felling is taking place on the inside of the curve so it looks like where the present A1 turns left then curves to the right again, the new road is to take a straight ahead course.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Bryn666 »

Which was?
A distinctly temporary terminus - the motorway will probably swerve into a narrow D2 layout and rejoin the old road. The A74 was full of these during the upgrade works...
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Bryn666 wrote:
Which was?
A distinctly temporary terminus - the motorway will probably swerve into a narrow D2 layout and rejoin the old road. The A74 was full of these during the upgrade works...
Ah, much like it used to do on approach to Wetherby. Or indeed south of Ferrybridge to this day.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by MatthewB6323 »

Mark Hewitt wrote:
MatthewB6323 wrote: Further confirmation that the break in the two phases of the scheme is the point where the two were joined together in the first place. I suspect an arrangement on the ground comparable to that at Johnstonebridge before the A74(M) was extended north to Beattock.
Which was?
The A74(M) swerved left, heading north, and returned to the old A74 alignment; B7076 northbound traffic heading to the A74 used the slip road, and a stretch of old A74 northbound carriageway was mothballed, though it is now in use again as part of the B7076. A similar arrangement might happen at Leeming.
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Re: A1(M) DISHFORTH LEEMING BARTON

Post by wrinkly »

Sorry, Matthew, you remember one detail wrong. When a section of the A74(M) ended at Johnstonebridge (for about four years from 1995 to 1999), traffic from the B7076 heading for the northbound A74 continued to use the old northbound A74, and joined the mainline at a temporary merge north of the village (just south of Cleuchbrae Burn on the 1:25000 map).

At that time the present northbound on-slip was in a partly-built state. The earthworks had been done and the slopes seeded, but no carriageway construction had been done on it.

It may be that the layout you describe was used for a limited period in early 1999. I've always wanted to know exactly what temporary layouts and traffic management were used when the section north from there was opened.

Incidentally, throughout that four-year period there was a cutting ready for the future motorway through the hill north of J16. But for some mysterious reason which I've also always wanted to know, the design was changed to make the southbound off-slip longer, so when the extension was built, the cutting was widened on the east side.
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