Botched Roadsigns

[Andy33gmail]

Jesus said "enter by the narrow gate" so I think we can assume it's an S1 at most.

Could still be a motorway - take this narrow gate on a motorway for example ...

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6668154 ... a=!3m1!1e3

[kc1]

Met this delight today

[lefthandedspanner]

This is one I pass by daily - the roundabout junction of Wakefield Road and Croftflat Drive on the outskirts of Huddersfield.

Towards Huddersfield, and towards Wakefield, not that it's obvious from the signage.

Also, the tarmac on both the entries to the roundabout on Wakefield Road is completely knackered, and the surface is mostly down to bare concrete - you can tell that was developer-funded.

[vlad]

In the same vein as "no stunt bikes", here's "no stunt HGVs".

I wouldn't mind seeing that for real.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

The M74 is over 6 miles away at this point...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.78180 ... 6656?hl=en

Turn left for Glasgow, turn right for Glasgow...

[Robert Kilcoyne]

Another candidate from north of the border

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.59187 ... 6656?hl=en

The brackets are incorrect, as the A71, A76 and A735 meet the A77 here. Dumfries is placed incorrectly between Irvine and Edinburgh, both of which are served by the A71, although very few drivers would probably leave here for Edinburgh these days.

[Patrick Harper]

In the UK we do not strictly have multiplexes at all, and one road can only have one number.

In that case, would the first design on Figure 9-5 from page 88 (90 in the PDF) of Chapter 7 of the Traffic Signs Manual be incorrect? There are two road numbers on the upper sign for different destinations, both omitting brackets. Should B1121 in this case be in brackets?

[Chris5156]

In the UK we do not strictly have multiplexes at all, and one road can only have one number.

In that case, would the first design on Figure 9-5 from page 88 (90 in the PDF) of Chapter 7 of the Traffic Signs Manual be incorrect? There are two road numbers on the upper sign for different destinations, both omitting brackets. Should B1121 in this case be in brackets?

No, because there's a difference between signposting a single road with two concurrent numbers (a multiplex) and signposting an exit that leads to several different roads. The example from Chapter 7 is a sign for an exit sliproad, and if that sliproad leads to a junction where you can turn on to any of several differently-numbered roads, then all those numbers can appear on the sign together.

[Big L]

The M74 is over 6 miles away at this point...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.78180 ... 6656?hl=en

Turn left for Glasgow, turn right for Glasgow...

That's not a botch though. There are lots of places with directions to the same place via different routes.

[lefthandedspanner]

The M74 is over 6 miles away at this point...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.78180 ... 6656?hl=en

Turn left for Glasgow, turn right for Glasgow...

That's not a botch though. There are lots of places with directions to the same place via different routes.

I'd be more concerned about the sign apparently instructing motorway-bound traffic to join a dual carriageway on the wrong side.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

The M74 is over 6 miles away at this point...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.78180 ... 6656?hl=en

Turn left for Glasgow, turn right for Glasgow...

That's not a botch though. There are lots of places with directions to the same place via different routes.

I should have made clear that the botch is the inappropriate use of chopsticks where you are not in the immediate vicinity of the motorway itself. You can sign the same place twice via different routes, particularly for traffic prohibited from using motorways, and I have seen Glasgow signed twice at the Wandel roundabout on the A702 near Abington where you can take the direct route via the A702 and M74 or you can take the slower route via Lanark to the A8.

[Patrick Harper]

In the UK we do not strictly have multiplexes at all, and one road can only have one number.

In that case, would the first design on Figure 9-5 from page 88 (90 in the PDF) of Chapter 7 of the Traffic Signs Manual be incorrect? There are two road numbers on the upper sign for different destinations, both omitting brackets. Should B1121 in this case be in brackets?

No, because there's a difference between signposting a single road with two concurrent numbers (a multiplex) and signposting an exit that leads to several different roads. The example from Chapter 7 is a sign for an exit sliproad, and if that sliproad leads to a junction where you can turn on to any of several differently-numbered roads, then all those numbers can appear on the sign together.

Does this apply to two-way sliproads as well?

EDIT: Scratch that, this system should apply as long as the base colour of the sign matches the mainline road designation from which it is attached to.

[Burns]

In the UK we do not strictly have multiplexes at all, and one road can only have one number.

This system is one I find a little silly. If you're navigating by road number and it disappears then reappears further down the line, it'll confuse people. Then again, since most people will just follow their phones/sat navs, the numbering system in itself is probably only relevant to authorities, people who have broken down etc...

Interesting side note, if there's a multiplex in Norway, both roads are signposted on the frequent route confirmation signs. If one route leads to another that's deemed important, the road it leads to is signed on the route confirmation sign*, only with a dashed outline. It's a nice system, especially since I'm the kind of driver who follows roads rather than destinations.

*As a side note, on that link, turn back by 180 degrees to see an impressive S2 GSJ over the sea.

[Stevie D]

In the UK we do not strictly have multiplexes at all, and one road can only have one number.

This system is one I find a little silly. If you're navigating by road number and it disappears then reappears further down the line, it'll confuse people. Then again, since most people will just follow their phones/sat navs, the numbering system in itself is probably only relevant to authorities, people who have broken down etc...

On signage, both road numbers are generally given, with the subsidiary route shown in brackets, eg https://goo.gl/maps/Uan6fRBTMTP2. This is sufficiently widespread and obvious that it shouldn't cause confusion by a route number "disappearing", although that does of course depend on highways authorities putting up the signs correctly. But TBH I would have more faith in them correctly signing distant continuations of a road (in just the same way that they signpost other distant roads where relevant) than in having them consistently and accurately signposting multiplexes.

It is much easier to identify a location if it has a single road number, and the Driver Location Signs only have to match up with one road rather than two.

And how far do you go? Yes, the A1/A57 between Apleyhead and Markham Moor is a perfect example of where a multiplex can be seen without much doubt. But it isn't always so obvious. What about M40/A34 and M40/A41, which would technically then be M40/A34/A41. How many people from Oxford and Aylesbury are going to Solihull and Birmingham? Almost certainly not enough to merit the additional complication and potential confusion on the signs – especially given that those onward destinations aren't necessarily going to be signposted at the start of the 'multiplex'. Should the B6265 be signed as a subsidiary route number just because it continues out on both sides?

[Johnathan404]

This system is one I find a little silly. If you're navigating by road number and it disappears then reappears further down the line, it'll confuse people. Then again, since most people will just follow their phones/sat navs, the numbering system in itself is probably only relevant to authorities, people who have broken down etc...

That's not really how anybody ever really navigates, though.

My parents have travelled between Liverpool and Yorkshire for decades. I fairly sure they still haven't realised the M62 at Manchester disappeared 20 years ago. As far as they are concerned, they keep following "Leeds M62" until they get there. I doubt they have ever noticed that some of those signs now say "Leeds (M62)", and if they did they certainly wouldn't stop to consider what this means. All it means to them is that they are heading in the right direction.

If the problem is that Leeds and M62 deserve more prominence than they are already given, then that is an issue with how the signs have been laid out, not the policy.

[Stevie D]

That's not a botch though. There are lots of places with directions to the same place via different routes.

Just because it's common doesn't mean it's right.

If a road is signposted for Glasgow then that road should be the best way for traffic to get from that point to Glasgow, in general terms. That means there should only be one road signposted to any given destination.

There may be times when you want to give an alternative route, but in that case you need to say why, eg "avoiding low bridge". Just giving two choices for the same destination is unhelpful, and is likely to lead to confusion and some drivers taking a sub-optimal route.

[Chris5156]

In the UK we do not strictly have multiplexes at all, and one road can only have one number.

This system is one I find a little silly. If you're navigating by road number and it disappears then reappears further down the line, it'll confuse people. Then again, since most people will just follow their phones/sat navs, the numbering system in itself is probably only relevant to authorities, people who have broken down etc...

The second road number doesn't have to disappear altogether. Whenever we talk about "multiplexes" or concurrencies in the UK, and there are plenty, we're talking about places where one road is followed by another and the signs say, for example, "M60 (M62)". The road is not both the M60 and M62, it can only be one because a road can only have one number, so the road is the M60. But you will follow it to travel between the discontinuous sections of the M62, so it is signposted with both numbers, one in brackets.

That's really no different to a road in Norway being signed with one number followed by another inside a dashed box. Where they use a dashed box we use brackets. The only difference is that we can't give a road two numbers with equal prominence - it has to be one road, leading to another.

[Chris5156]

Brent Borough Council, who are not normally very good at road signs anyway, excel themselves with a warning for entirely the wrong sort of bridge.

[Bryn666]

Brent Borough Council, who are not normally very good at road signs anyway, excel themselves with a warning for entirely the wrong sort of bridge.

Why is there even a warning sign there at all, let alone the wrong one...

[Big L]

On the subject of 'The wrong sign'...