Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

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dvboy
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Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by dvboy » Tue Oct 07, 2008 17:43

The route for the Lincoln Eastern Bypass has finally been revealed and, if approved, work is to start in 2012.
"The overwhelming response from the public when we spoke to people was: 'Get on with it'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/linc ... 656314.stm

So I'll put a £50 bet on LCC rejecting it then. :twisted:
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Truvelo
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by Truvelo » Tue Oct 07, 2008 18:29

Where's the GSJ's :@
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.

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CJ
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by CJ » Tue Oct 07, 2008 22:44

Truvelo wrote:Where's the GSJ's
Hey, at least it's going to be a dual carriageway, and not an S2 or WS2!!

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by Brenley Corner » Tue Oct 07, 2008 23:01

£116m for a 4.5 mile road??? That's a little expensive, surely? I can see financial priorities being recast everywhere in the next few years and that is going to seem like bad value.

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by Ritchie333 » Tue Oct 07, 2008 23:17

Wonder if the fact it's a bit hilly around there has anything to do with it....
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sotonsteve
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by sotonsteve » Wed Oct 08, 2008 09:15

Did you not hear, the foundations of the road will be made with gold :twisted:

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RichardA35
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by RichardA35 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:39

Brenley Corner wrote:£116m for a 4.5 mile road??? That's a little expensive, surely? I can see financial priorities being recast everywhere in the next few years and that is going to seem like bad value.

Tony
That £116M figure is quoted at 2005 Q4 and includes some £30-35 million of risk/Optimism Bias without even thinking about 7 years of inflation until 2012 when construction may start
Pure construction estimate is under £70M, less when risk is taken off.

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by boing_uk » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:37

Well there is the River Witham (navigable), the Lincoln to Barnetby railway line and a number of deep cuttings and large embankments to build.

To put it in perspective, in 1996 it cost £14M to build 4 miles of new carriageway on mostly existing railway formation, with two small road underpasses and a large rail overpass. So £116M doesnt seem all that bad in all reality.

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by jackal » Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:50

CJ wrote:
Truvelo wrote:Where's the GSJ's
Hey, at least it's going to be a dual carriageway, and not an S2 or WS2!!
Yes, even at-grade D2 is higher standard than any of the roads it connects.

But given it has to cross a railway and a navigable waterway, I wonder if it really would have been much of an added expense to squeeze a road under the necessary bridges, and put some slips in. I've not seen plans of the selected route so I can't make a firm proposal in that direction - maybe it wouldn't have worked out.

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sotonsteve
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by sotonsteve » Wed Oct 08, 2008 14:55

£116m. Ouch, things are so damned expensive nowadays.

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by boing_uk » Wed Oct 08, 2008 16:04

But does the bypass really need GSJ'ing?

Sure it would be nice, but also quite pie in the sky bearing in mind that the rest of the relief road does not have GSJ's nor does the Lincoln-Newark section (excepting that minor road just south of Lincoln).

Besides which all you will be doing is freeing mainline traffic to head... hmm.. straight in to a queue at one of the existing roundabouts. No point at all!

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by sotonsteve » Wed Oct 08, 2008 16:36

Future proof it is what I say. Have flares at the roundabouts and plant some nice shrubs and trees in the middle of the flares. Makes the road look more attractive as a plus point, even if land take is greater.

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RichardA35
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by RichardA35 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 17:06

sotonsteve wrote:Future proof it is what I say. Have flares at the roundabouts and plant some nice shrubs and trees in the middle of the flares. Makes the road look more attractive as a plus point, even if land take is greater.
In the real world, it's a question of value for money at the time. The need is to get the price as low as possible within the rules so that the BCR is as favourable as possible and allows the scheme to get central governement approval.
Future proofing ia a luxury that adds only cost at day one and has no value for about 15 years or until the traffic growth demands it.
.....At which point it becomes someone else's problem and the funding can be sought at that time.

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sotonsteve
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by sotonsteve » Wed Oct 08, 2008 17:23

RichardA35 wrote:
sotonsteve wrote:Future proof it is what I say. Have flares at the roundabouts and plant some nice shrubs and trees in the middle of the flares. Makes the road look more attractive as a plus point, even if land take is greater.
In the real world, it's a question of value for money at the time. The need is to get the price as low as possible within the rules so that the BCR is as favourable as possible and allows the scheme to get central governement approval.
Future proofing ia a luxury that adds only cost at day one and has no value for about 15 years or until the traffic growth demands it.
.....At which point it becomes someone else's problem and the funding can be sought at that time.
Exactly, and long term thinking seemed to vanish with the 1990s. Everything is geared towards looking good in the present and vote winning.

The additional cost of future proofing is in the compulsory purchase of additional land. Seeing as there would be a lot of compulsory purchasing anyway wouldn't purchasing additional land around the junctions be insignificant given that it is all being done at once? Anyway, it's probably just farmland or something, rather than people's houses and the like, so purchasing a bit more shouldn't really be a problem in my view. Going back at a later date would be significantly more expensive, but as you said, somebody else's problem. The governmental person who authorised the road in the first place would have retired on their future proofed pension by then.

But as I say, nice bit of plantation in the middle of the road where it flares reduces the environmental impact of the road. Nice sweetener I think. This road will be here for decades and decades, so best get it right first time lads!

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by RichardA35 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 17:30

sotonsteve wrote:The additional cost of future proofing is in the compulsory purchase of additional land. Seeing as there would be a lot of compulsory purchasing anyway wouldn't purchasing additional land around the junctions be insignificant given that it is all being done at once?
That then leaves you open to a challenge at Inquiry or later that the land is not necessary for the highway and the orders may fail and set the entire process back by years. There is usually a risk averse stance taken on these matters.

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sotonsteve
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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by sotonsteve » Wed Oct 08, 2008 18:25

RichardA35 wrote:
sotonsteve wrote:The additional cost of future proofing is in the compulsory purchase of additional land. Seeing as there would be a lot of compulsory purchasing anyway wouldn't purchasing additional land around the junctions be insignificant given that it is all being done at once?
That then leaves you open to a challenge at Inquiry or later that the land is not necessary for the highway and the orders may fail and set the entire process back by years. There is usually a risk averse stance taken on these matters.
It could be argued necessary, for thinking about the future, and also for beautification purposes in the meantime. Or think of it in terms of carbon footprint, which seems the most important thing on planet earth at the moment. Nice hedgerow down the middle of the road, offsets the tarmac. Let's face it, surrounding farmland would just be the usual unecological commercial land where wildlife struggles to survive anyway, plus the farmland is probably subsidised by the taxpayer anyway, so put some of it to use as a bypass :twisted:

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by t1(M) » Wed Oct 08, 2008 22:10

boing_uk wrote:Well there is the River Witham (navigable), the Lincoln to Barnetby railway line and a number of deep cuttings and large embankments to build.
Two railway lines - it has to cross the Spalding line too.

The river is indeed navigable, but headroom shouldn't be too much of a problem given that this bridge is only a little way upstream
Image

The really contentious road will be the southern bypass, linking the A15 and A46 and potentiallyn splitting Waddington village. There is a proposal to tunnel through the ridge to minimise the environmental impact. The height difference will almost certainly necessiatate a GSJ with the A607 (although the solution used at Leadenham where the new A17 crosses the A607 with no junction is a possibility)

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by B4133 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 23:29

One thing i would like to ask, is there any pdf plans of it and what is the road number be? Could it be the A460 or does that number exist.

My guess would be it would look like a flatted verison of yorks ring road (A64/A1237). Ive looked at me road atlas and another obstical is the Waddington airfield unless they plough through the neigbouring golf course as well, or is it being built further in.

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by Halstead » Thu Oct 09, 2008 00:30

B4133 wrote:One thing i would like to ask, is there any pdf plans of it and what is the road number be? Could it be the A460 or does that number exist.
No, since when was Lincoln a stone's throw away from Wolverhampton? Anyway old chestnut time again (sirens play) I always thought the lesser known "M11 extension" was to bypass Lincoln to the east or was this not part of the plans?
6 years...

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Re: Lincoln Eastern Bypass: "Get on with it!"

Post by RichardA35 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 08:15

B4133 wrote:One thing i would like to ask, is there any pdf plans of it..?
Are you aware something called a search engine?
Apparently these will search for internet pages. If you look for Lincolnshire County Council you may well find further links there to their Transportation section where such plans reside.
The BBC link at the top of the thread is also a good place to start.

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