Catthorpe preferred route announcement

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MatthewB6323
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Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by MatthewB6323 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:32

Published by the Highways Agency here.

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Truvelo
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by Truvelo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:44

Well what do you know, they went for the freeflow option, bravo :drink:

It also means about 5 miles of new motorway to the east :D
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by Johnathan404 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:48

Hang on, so they've gone for the option with the most free-flow, best local road network, greatest traffic flow improvement, least environmental impact and best value for money? What on earth?!

Are there any ideas of construction dates?
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SouthWest Philip
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by SouthWest Philip » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:49

That choice is a surprise, I thought they would go for one of the roundabout options. Looks like the A14 is now set to become a spontaneous motorway a la Micklefield.

The loss of movements between the M6 and M1(N) is not problem, as these are adaquately served by the A426 and M69. But given the nearby frieght facility at Crick, I would have though some provision for links between the M1(S) and A14 would have been useful.

Won't the M6 losing it's mainline running onto the M1(S) be a potential problem? I would have thought there was more traffc heading from the M6 onto the M1 rather than the A14... In fact I wouldn't be surprised if more traffic leaves the northbound M1 for the M6 than stays on, perhaps that should be the mainline through the junction?

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Blackwave15
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by Blackwave15 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:55

SouthWest Philip wrote:That choice is a surprise, I thought they would go for one of the roundabout options.
Yes, I supported the 'Blue' idea since there is local access and all movements access.

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by PeterA5145 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:33

As a number of us attended the exhibition about this on the Rugby awayday last year, it can be said that this is a decision where Sabristi have had a significant input. I'm pretty sure I expressed a preference for the option they have chosen as it provides full freeflow for the key movements.
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sotonsteve
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by sotonsteve » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:39

Amazing, they went for the best option; the limited access fully freeflow option with best local road connections. Common sense prevails :P :D

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by jackal » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:41

MSAJohnny wrote:Are there any ideas of construction dates?
July 2011 to April 2014 according to the major project tracker.
SouthWest Philip wrote:[1]That choice is a surprise, I thought they would go for one of the roundabout options. Looks like the A14 is now set to become a spontaneous motorway a la Micklefield.

[2]The loss of movements between the M6 and M1(N) is not problem, as these are adaquately served by the A426 and M69. But given the nearby frieght facility at Crick, I would have though some provision for links between the M1(S) and A14 would have been useful.

[3]Won't the M6 losing it's mainline running onto the M1(S) be a potential problem? I would have thought there was more traffc heading from the M6 onto the M1 rather than the A14... In fact I wouldn't be surprised if more traffic leaves the northbound M1 for the M6 than stays on, perhaps that should be the mainline through the junction?
1. No announcement has been made about what will happen with the A14, has it? I'm not sure that they will Micklefield it, as there is no instance of such a solution being adopted permanently.

2. The freight facility wasn't built there with the S-E access in place, and they can't really complain about their level of provision remaining the same. If it was really such a big deal for them they could have offered to stump up the difference between the partial and full access designs. It's not the taxpayer's responsibility to improve access for one specific private business, and the freeflow option may well be best for business in the country as a whole.

3. I think the split between the M1 and M6 is pretty much exactly even, so there's no real justification for making the M1 a TOTSO. You're probably right that more M6 traffic heads to the M1 than to the A14, but designs with the mainline turning the corner are more expensive and so only cost effective where the flows are extremely unbalanced, and I don't think that's the case here.
PeterA5145 wrote:As a number of us attended the exhibition about this on the Rugby awayday last year, it can be said that this is a decision where Sabristi have had a significant input. I'm pretty sure I expressed a preference for the option they have chosen as it provides full freeflow for the key movements.
That said, the poll held on here showed a clear majority in favour of the all access option, with the 'winning' option having less than half the support. Of course, you may still be right, in that sabristi such as yourself who attended may generally have favoured the winning option.

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JamesA44
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by JamesA44 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 14:57

Obviously the A14 <-> M1S movement isn't catered for in the proposal (as it isn't now).

What is the recommended route for this movement, out of interest?

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by B1018 A120 M11 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 15:13

SouthWest Philip, I'm confused. How is the M6 Southbound 'losing its main line' onto the M1 Southbound? The exact plans for the junction aren't finalised, but we can see that the M6 Southbound will freeflow onto the A14 Eastbound and also onto the M1 Southbound. Surely that could be done by a carriageway split? There are probably better examples of this, but the only one I can think of right now is the one from the A406 Northbound to the M11 Northbound (Junction 4), where the A406 becomes two lanes of M11 northbound and two of A406 anti-clockwise? If it was done properly, it could even be three lanes per split, and then neither of the options would feel like a 'slip road' from the 'mainline'. They might both feel like the mainline!

I guess we should reserve judgement until the final plans are out, but unless they intend something really daft, like making the piece of road from M6S to M1S a one-lane slip road and forcing the combined traffic of the three-lane M6 into one lane, I think the proposed design will be just fine. And surely they couldn't be that daft - could they? ;)

Edit: a better example is the M6 Southbound split into the M6 Southbound and the M5 Southbound at Junction 8. Yes, I suppose you could argue that the M5 is 'leaving the main-line of the M6', and that's what it looks like on the map, but in practice both motorways become equally sized two-lane stretches for a short way here, don't they? (OK, the M6 gets its third lane back almost immediately after the diverge, but I hope you see my point).

Also, who says the A14 will necessarily become motorway as a result of this redesign? They could just make all non-motorway-capable Westbound traffic leave the A14 at A14 junction 1 (the A5199), but leave the A14 as an A-road. Topographically, such an arrangement would be just like the A1(M) is now northbound at Blyth following the grade separation there. Non-motorway-capable traffic has to leave the Northbound A1 at the north-facing off-slip before the roundabout, but the A-road status of the A1 continues under the roundabout underpass, and the road only becomes motorway just before the on-slip from the roundabout joins the main northbound carriageway (well, that's where the start of motorway 'chopsticks' sign is, anyway). The A14 junction would be exactly the same, except that the section of A-road barred to non-motorway-capable traffic would be several miles westbound, rather than the few hundred yards northbound it is at Blyth.

Sorry if I'm rehashing old discussions here - I vaguely recall a thread about what might happen to the A14 between its junction 1 and the M6/M1 if a freeflow option was selected, but I don't see that it legally has to become motorway. Or does it? I'm sure someone here will be quick to enlighten me if I'm wrong...? ;)

Anyway, whatever the technicalities of this point are, it's great to see that the freeflow option has won the day at Catthorpe. With this and the planned reconstruction of Girton, we might actually have an A14 that isn't a complete embarrassment by 2015! We live in hope...

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by TheKeymeister » Thu Feb 19, 2009 16:30

Was just about to post about this...I got a letter from the HA with a nice little leaflet this morning!

As for "a few extra miles of motorway", the HA representative at the Swinford exhibition told me that it wouldn't be upgraded as such, just non-motorway traffic would be instructed to leave at A14 J1...and seemed pretty sure that the end of motorway would be at the end of the slips.

As for A14W -> M1S, I'd assume A43...either that, or I'm sure HGV traffic is instructed to u-turn at M6 J1 anyway....

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Blackwave15
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by Blackwave15 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 16:54

TheKeymeister wrote:
As for "a few extra miles of motorway", the HA representative at the Swinford exhibition told me that it wouldn't be upgraded as such, just non-motorway traffic would be instructed to leave at A14 J1...and seemed pretty sure that the end of motorway would be at the end of the slips.
But wouldn't that section of the A14 still be a motorway?

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by B4133 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 17:49

I reckon that the section of A14 between Catthorpe and Junc. 1 will become technically the A14(M) even if it has a blue sign with just A14 nailed on, hence its a motorway.

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by nowster » Thu Feb 19, 2009 17:53

The A494 and M56 have "Spontaneous motorway", with the motorway status being bound by the original boundaries of the M56.

The A14 between the M6/M1 and its next junction could be made a special road (to exclude pedestrians, etc), but it need not be made motorway. You could have a sign "Motorway 5 miles ahead, prohibited traffic must exit at next junction".

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sotonsteve
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by sotonsteve » Thu Feb 19, 2009 18:08

On the A14 itself, leading up to the last junction before Catthorpe, the signage would be no different to if the motorway started after the slip roads peeled away; it would only have a blue patch above the straight line pointing ahead. Hence, for A14 traffic the signing would be no different to if an A14(M) were created. Things would be a little different for traffic joining westbound at the junction though. I'd imagine that it would be signed at the junction as a big blue patch on a green background, but probably accompanied by a "Motorway Restrictions Apply" type sign.

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by gepree68 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 18:12

SouthWest Philip wrote:The loss of movements between the M6 and M1(N) is not problem, as these are adaquately served by the A426 and M69.
As a matter of interest, do the current M6 southbound signs approaching this junction make any reference to the M1(N)? Or do they just say "Straight on for M1, Turn left for A14"?
sotonsteve wrote:On the A14 itself, leading up to the last junction before Catthorpe, the signage would be no different to if the motorway started after the slip roads peeled away; it would only have a blue patch above the straight line pointing ahead.
But would this sign say:

A14
(M6, M1)

or would it say

M6 (M1)

?

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by TheKeymeister » Thu Feb 19, 2009 18:19

gepree68 wrote:As a matter of interest, do the current M6 southbound signs approaching this junction make any reference to the M1(N)? Or do they just say "Straight on for M1, Turn left for A14"?
I can't remember the exact signage, but the M1 (N) is definitely mentioned with the A14

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by gepree68 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 18:37

TheKeymeister wrote:
gepree68 wrote:As a matter of interest, do the current M6 southbound signs approaching this junction make any reference to the M1(N)? Or do they just say "Straight on for M1, Turn left for A14"?
I can't remember the exact signage, but the M1 (N) is definitely mentioned with the A14
So will this be the first time in the UK that a motorway to motorway (in this case M6 southbound to M1 northbound) connection has been built and then later removed?

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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by haymansafc » Thu Feb 19, 2009 18:40

That's the best option for Catthorpe. I'm also surprised they've decided to go for what's arguably the most sensible option. The A14 has badly needed a freeflow link to/from the M6 for many years.

I'm not overly concerned about the loss of a link between the M6 to M1 Northbound either - the M69 serves this purpose well. Whilst it's a regrettable loss to loose something which is already in existence on the network (especially for Lutterworth residents), I consider it a relatively small price to pay overall.

I don't think going for another roundabout would have been the best option personally. If that was to be the case, then it wouldn't exactly be much of an improvement over what stands there at the moment. I feel that would have been a waste of money.

I suspect when it comes to M6 to M1 southbound, there will be a carriageway split. I presume, looking at the picture, that you'll have to move over to the right to use the A14 and over to the left for the M1. I can imagine a similar kind of arrangement to what we see at the M6 Preston Bypass approaches the M55. If that is the case, I suspect there will be plenty of advanced warning.
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Re: Catthorpe preferred route announcement

Post by Truvelo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 18:44

My guess at the layou of the eastbound M6 would be to have lane 1 for the M1 which widens to two lanes for the slip. Lanes 2 and 3 of the M6 would be for the A14. An alternative would be to have lane 2 for both the M1 and A14 like what's recently happened at the western end of the M42.

I think there's about a 50:50 split in the amount of M6 traffic using the M1 and A14 so it doesn't really matter which has the mainline or TOTSO.
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