Catthorpe preferred route announcement

[skiddaw05]

If the whole lot became the M6 this would have within its length one of the most interesting sections of motorway (around Shap) and one of the most dull (just about all the M11 north of the M25)

[jackal]

TBH renaming the entire M11 up to the A14 the M6 sounds laughable in my opinion. My reason being not because of the fact that the M6 may be out of zone,

Good, because it wouldn't be out of zone. Mx numbers define the zone boundaries, so they can't be out of zone. Ax numbers shift happily enough; this isn't any different.

my verdict would go down to it's misleading identity. Motorways help us on the road because they help us get from A to B in succession and the number is a guide to help us along.

Basically if the M11 becomes the M6, it's not going to be absolutely direct at all and could arise in confusion and delay. It'll be fine if the M6 were extended to Felixstowe but never to Chigwell IMO.

I don't think you can have a very clear idea of how direct the route would be. At the moment the difference in time between doing Catthorpe to Woodford via the A14/M11 and via the M1 (the only other viable option) is only about 20 minutes. Bring in the improvements around Catthorpe, Huntingdon, and Kettering and that difference will be eliminated. The A14/M11 route might even be quicker. Then when you take into account the fact that you wouldn't have to leave the mainline on the A14/M11 route (with the safety and hassle-removing benefits that brings), I think the signed route to East London from the North should be via the A14/M11. In which case, wouldn't it be rather misleading not to give that route a prominent number when possible? Not to mention removing a major TOTSO when possible?

[Halstead]

Sigh, I don't think you've got the point. Shown on a map, the prospect of an M6 from Woodford to Glasgow would look extremely unattractive on a map as it would resemble a badly constructed pivot.

Ask an ordinary motorist how to get from north london (or surrounding) to Brum and they'd most probably say the M1/M6 or M40 depending on their perspective. If I were to ask them if they would take your proposed idea then they'd either disapprove or laugh.

The A14 (minus the mway regs) from Catthorpe to Brampton is vital for forming a link from the Suffolk ports to the Midlands and beyond but honestly I don't see any intentions for dragging it down to London just because of a TOTSO along the route.

[roadtester]

Ask an ordinary motorist how to get from north london (or surrounding) to Brum and they'd most probably say the M1/M6 or M40 depending on their perspective. If I were to ask them if they would take your proposed idea then they'd either disapprove or laugh.

It could look a bit different from northeast and southeast London, or from Essex and Kent, though.

[vlad]

I've certainly been driven up the M11, A14 and M6 to get to Stoke from Kent, although I don't know whether that's cos the coach driver thought it was a good route, or whether he just enjoyed stopping at Birchanger Green.

Anyway, even if the whole of that is renumbered as M6, it won't be as weird a route as some roads take!

[Sunil_of_Yoxley]

If you can fit in a connection to the M2 or M20, as I described above, it will be a great route to take from the north to the Channel Tunnel.

[gaz909]

I can understand converting the A14 to motorway grade. Although I'm staggered at how quickly this road has become one of the major arteries in the country!

What I can't get round my head is the thought of renaming the M11 to M6. What tosh. You'd need to change all the signs then renunber all of the junctions on the existing M6. What a waste if taxpayers money. People can navigate you know! That's why it's called a network. Next you'll want the M1 to go to Newcastle Upon Tyne. You could rip all the signs up!

Rant over!!

[Halstead]

If you can fit in a connection to the M2 or M20, as I described above, it will be a great route to take from the north to the Channel Tunnel.

I don't quite get this, what's wrong with the freeflow on M25 J4? IIRC the widening works on the M25 2-3 should almost near completion.

[CJ]

I don't quite get this, what's wrong with the freeflow on M25 J4? IIRC the widening works on the M25 2-3 should almost near completion.

What's wrong with it is that it involves using the Dartford Crossing and therefore sitting in a queue for hours on end.

[Halstead]

Sunil's post didn't mention anything about crossing the river Thames as part of the connection hence why I asked.

[Helvellyn]

I can understand converting the A14 to motorway grade. Although I'm staggered at how quickly this road has become one of the major arteries in the country!

What I can't get round my head is the thought of renaming the M11 to M6. What tosh. You'd need to change all the signs then renunber all of the junctions on the existing M6. What a waste if taxpayers money. People can navigate you know! That's why it's called a network. Next you'll want the M1 to go to Newcastle Upon Tyne. You could rip all the signs up!

Then why bother numbering at all? Nope, far better to keep things tidy, within reason. Can slapping a few patches over signs really be all that expensive? (if it is, which wouldn't surprise me these days, then surely a long, hard look needs to be taken with these costs).

The "Looks an odd route" argument doesn't go with me either. I've not heard of confused drivers going around in circles on the M25 or M60!

[Big Nick]

The "Looks an odd route" argument doesn't go with me either. I've not heard of confused drivers going around in circles on the M25 or M60!

Funny you should say that....
My cousin went on a daytrip to Margate a few years ago. He and his gf went from J25 to J2 on the M25 via Heathrow because 'they misread the signs'. Their mates in another car got there 2 hours before them and spent the whole day taking the ****!

(FWIW, he works in the City as a stockbroker.... )

[Sunil_of_Yoxley]

Halstead, I did say "as I described above". In an earlier post here I mentioned either building the TG bridge to D3M so that you can go M11 to A406 to south of the river, and then reach the A2/M2 that way, or build a connection from M11 to A12 and a new Blackwall crossing to do likewise. Then connect M2 to M20 via A249.

That way, a northwest UK to southeast route via Catthorpe wouldn't look so odd.

[Helvellyn]

Big Nick, I stand corrected!

[jackal]

Sigh, I don't think you've got the point. Shown on a map, the prospect of an M6 from Woodford to Glasgow would look extremely unattractive on a map as it would resemble a badly constructed pivot.

Ask an ordinary motorist how to get from north london (or surrounding) to Brum and they'd most probably say the M1/M6 or M40 depending on their perspective. If I were to ask them if they would take your proposed idea then they'd either disapprove or laugh.

The A14 (minus the mway regs) from Catthorpe to Brampton is vital for forming a link from the Suffolk ports to the Midlands and beyond but honestly I don't see any intentions for dragging it down to London just because of a TOTSO along the route.

Deary me. You seem to imagine that road numbers are there to confirm drivers' preconceived ideas about routes, even when those ideas are mistaken. What's the point of that? The fact that the extended M6 route would look strange to an ordinary, uninformed motorist, even though (post-improvement) it would be the best route from Glasgow to East London, is precisely the reason that it would be an especially good idea to sign it.

[skiddaw05]

How busy is the M1-A1 section of A14? Would traffic levels justify it becoming a motorway? If not it would seem a rather extravagant way of tidying up the road numbering system! If it is really busy (havn't been on here for years so I really don't know) then having one motorway number throughout would seem logical.

[jackal]

How busy is the M1-A1 section of A14? Would traffic levels justify it becoming a motorway? If not it would seem a rather extravagant way of tidying up the road numbering system! If it is really busy (havn't been on here for years so I really don't know) then having one motorway number throughout would seem logical.

Some numbers from 2006:

Catthorpe - 44,000AADT
Kettering - 67,000AADT
Thrapston - 43,000AADT
Huntingdon - 83,000AADT

Only the Huntingdon and (at a push) Kettering sections would really justify D3M. But to be honest, I was thinking only of D2M with ATM for the mainline of these sections. They are being widened to D3 (with C/D lanes near Girton) under existing plans, so there wouldn't be a great deal of extra expenditure for ATM.

As for Thrapston, Catthorpe, etc, D2M (without ATM) is the most that could be needed, but if money for the hard shoulder isn't there I was hoping to be a cheapskate and just upgrade to motorway without any improvements! This will de facto be the case east of Catthorpe anyway, so why not formalize it?