The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.
There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).
Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.
a1adam wrote:and then the answer hit me: why on earth are people allowed to turn right at the lights? There is no right-hand filter lane, so all it takes is one right-turner and traffic will be blocked for a whole phase of the lights
Something I pointed out in 2001 when I was working on the then current bypass scheme proposals and again in 2005 during a very short spell working for the HA's managing agent.
parristim wrote:
Sitting in the queue I did notice some signs I'd not seen before. One 'official' councilly sign saying that Glossop Spur work was now underway and a couple of unofficial new yellow 'sign our petition' signs. Anyone know owt about either?
Do you mean this sign? It has been there quite a while as GSV shows June 2009 and its quite well covered here! However the yellow ones you mention have only appeared since Christmas I think.
With a few bits of tarmac and earth moving machinery there could be the makings of a guerilla by-pass movement. You never know a few people could work to sneak in a by-pass through the night
Ah, yes that's the one. I guess they must've just cut back the vegetation as I hadn't noticed it before.
Yes, that new Tesco will likely make traffic busier, unless there's anything in their planning consent to alleviate any negative traffic effects (I belive Tesco had to bung, erm, I mean contribute, ~£3m to SYPTE for bus route improvements in the event that their new Wicker store here in Sheff caused any bus journeys to slow down). If it were me I'd've got them to build the bypass!
parristim wrote:Yes, that new Tesco will likely make traffic busier, unless there's anything in their planning consent to alleviate any negative traffic effects (I belive Tesco had to bung, erm, I mean contribute, ~£3m to SYPTE for bus route improvements in the event that their new Wicker store here in Sheff caused any bus journeys to slow down). If it were me I'd've got them to build the bypass!
It really wouldn't surprise me if before too long we start seeing Tescos roads, that you pay to drive on in exactly the same way you pay for a tin of beans and a Kit Kat (at the same time...just pick up a voucher from the till and on your way!)
Would this be a bad thing? Well environmentally a road is a road is a road, in terms of effects on the environment. If Tescos or any other private roadbuilder were subject to the same standards of environmental impact and the same processes of planning then it wouldn't necessarily be a problem.
On first thought it sounds like an appalling scenario allowing Tescos to build their own roads, but the more I think about it rationally, I find it hard to see what's wrong with anyone dipping into their own pockets to create their own roads rather than relying on the state to do it.
We do let Tesco build their own roads - we usually let them play with their own approach roads and sometimes they get a hand in designing new roundabouts. And looking at someoftheresults, I think we should leave it there!
Drove through Hollingworth/mottram on Tuesday, absolutely shocking congestion even during non-rush traffic. You have to feel for the residents of these villages.
According to Mapnik looks like a route has been designated, any updates on this?
I attended an exhibition about it in 2006 - in fact two exhibitions in adjacent rooms, one for the trunk road scheme and one for the southernmost part which was a local authority scheme. The western arm would have been D2 and included a c&c tunnel under the A6018 and adjacent residential area. The NE and SE arms were single carriageway.
I came through Mottram eastbound last week, reasoning that well after the evening peak it would have calmed down. But no, queue was back about 1/2 mile along the M67, and pretty stationary.
However, this was left lane only (I guess all regulars), right hand lane was clear up to the roundabout. Picked through others to turn right here, left into Ashworth Lane, expecting all the time to hit the back of a queue, but no, all the way up to the old Market Street, left there, joined the platoon at the lights just as it was starting, it gave a surprisingly long green, right onto the A57/A628 and away down the hill.
I never actually stopped. I was probably off in the clear before those queueing on the M67 even got in sight of the roundabout.
How has this not been discovered ?
Is the long green time for the small north-south Market Street flow a key part of the problem ?
What I find suprising is that the RH lane was clear. A similar, though not as extreme, situation to here exists on the A12 at Great Yarmouth where northbound queues regularly build up on both lanes of the D2 approach to the Gapton Hall roundabout, after which the A12 becomes S2. This is despite the RH lane being marked as right turn only (into Pastuer Road), and you get lots of cutting up at the last minute at the roundabout exit.
Do queues form on both lanes on the M67 during the actual peak?
This scheme bears remarkable similarity to the A30/A39 Indian Queens/Fraddon scheme completed in 1995. Similar topography, and a similar link road (A57 and A39) joining the main line.
I appreciate the landscape is not as precious to the south of the A30 as it is to the north of the A628, but from an engineering p.o.v. it is surely do-able. Maybe if the scheme was pushed through in the early 1990s heydays it would have been built by now. Any scheme that hadn't passed public enquiry by 1997 had the chances of its construction severely hampered.
I was doing some work in Hyde last week, and remembering this thread did a bit of research before going. From the Snake Pass through Glossop I turned off the A57 onto the A626 to Charlesworth, then turned off through Broadbottom, then just before rejoining the A57 at Mottram turned off onto Ashford Lane to the M67j4 Tesco, then onto the A57 into Hyde. No stopping anywhere and even at 30-40mph it felt like it was faster. Especially on the way back when I saw the M67/A57 at j4 packed with stationary east-bound traffic.
In looking at the map I'm amazed that there's only two minor road bridges across the River Etherow between Glossop and Stockport - ten miles apart. Even the A57 bridge is really a minor road bridge, so effectively there's no proper road bridge between Manchester and Derbyshire between Stockport and Sheffield! No wonder the traffic is bad around Mottram.
Since I changed jobs in March last, I'm one of those lorry drivers that has to use this route regularly. In fact I do it twice a day. Once each way.
This is because I'm doing a regular run from a flour mill near Peterborough to McVities in Stockport. I can't believe the bottleneck that is Tintwhistle/Hollingworth/Mottram. Its full of parked cars and sodding traffic lights. Westbound when I'm loaded and I have to crawl up the hill to Mottram lights is a real ballacher because I'm starting from a halt each change of lights and cos a gap appears in front of me as the cars race off, half a dozen more cars who are coming up the outside dive into the space and we all stop again. Repeat ad nauseum.
Has to be said the lack of lay-bys doesn't help neither. Again westbound I'm always conscious of holding a stream of cars up because I'm way to heavy to let her roll up to any kind of speed downhill but theres nowhere to pull in to let them pass. Eastbound I'm usually empty and therefore no bother.
I hate it, but theres no real alternative. The M62 is a long way round and then when you get to Manchester you still have to get to Stockport while Woodhead brings you out at Stockport.
Lonewolf wrote:Since I changed jobs in March last, I'm one of those lorry drivers that has to use this route regularly. In fact I do it twice a day. Once each way.
This is because I'm doing a regular run from a flour mill near Peterborough to McVities in Stockport. I can't believe the bottleneck that is Tintwhistle/Hollingworth/Mottram. Its full of parked cars and sodding traffic lights. Westbound when I'm loaded and I have to crawl up the hill to Mottram lights is a real ballacher because I'm starting from a halt each change of lights and cos a gap appears in front of me as the cars race off, half a dozen more cars who are coming up the outside dive into the space and we all stop again. Repeat ad nauseum.
Has to be said the lack of lay-bys doesn't help neither. Again westbound I'm always conscious of holding a stream of cars up because I'm way to heavy to let her roll up to any kind of speed downhill but theres nowhere to pull in to let them pass. Eastbound I'm usually empty and therefore no bother.
I hate it, but theres no real alternative. The M62 is a long way round and then when you get to Manchester you still have to get to Stockport while Woodhead brings you out at Stockport.
It sounds like you feel bad about holding up other traffic - don't feel this way - you are just doing your job.
The numpties that would moan about your lorry would be the same numpties who have a go at the supermarket staff because there are no chocolate digestives on the shelves.
chris486 wrote:
It sounds like you feel bad about holding up other traffic - don't feel this way - you are just doing your job.
The numpties that would moan about your lorry would be the same numpties who have a go at the supermarket staff because there are no chocolate digestives on the shelves.
Though I'd concur generally with this sentiment having used Woodhead everyday for several months there are some companies/drivers who choose to ignore common sense when using the A628. Like the company who regularly takes prefab buildings with big overhangs over the pass and another that transport inshore lifeboats with equally big overhangs on a regular basis. In places the road is barely wide enough to accommodate two opposing artics. Not to mention plenty of overloaded or badly performing commercial vehicles that have the following vehicles slipping the clutch in 1st on the drag up to the summit.
And then there's the artic drivers who take to the B6105 Devils Elbow route into Glossop to avoid some other Tintwhistle traffic!! Sat Nav says yes, road says are you serious?!!!!
I'm well aware these are a minority and most drivers and their wagons can get over the pass in safety and at a reasonable speed - and that I've seem many an HGV held up by a nervous/poor car driver.
My commute took me to just the other side of Barnsley and so using the M62 would have added 30 miles to a 44 mile journey! Not practical.
It's shameful it like this but we're not in the south east (which isn't without it own problems) so we seems to have to wait long for meagre scraps.
Mentions of a tunnel in this article! - although I suspect the cost would be more than £800m mentioned... and it specifically says tunnel to improve the road network, not rail.
Well, since it refers to £170M as the total spend on the Manchester-Sheffield route, it won't include an £800M tunnel!
Could be a confused reference to the short cut-and-cover tunnel under the A6018 and adjacent built-up area that was part of the last lot of proposals for a Mottram bypass.