N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

[JBK]

Junction south of Omagh Meats before 2+1 straight heading south on exisitng A5

[stu531]

The message from the West on the new road is very mixed. Some people are vocally against the road, but a very large number of people are vocally for it too. I'm resisting the temptation to have a rant about all the deliberate misunderstandings of road construction described in that article, but I know I'd be preaching to the converted so I'll save my breath.

Ah, thanks for the answer. Funny though - I would have thought that feedback would have been very positive, given that the rest of Ireland is being upgraded, road-wise. Is it likely to spur on the A6 development along the same lines?

[AndyB]

Derry is now the only city on the island of Ireland that is not connected to another major population centre by dual carriageway or motorway.

*cough*Armagh*cough*

Other than that, I agree with what you say. Do the job properly and futureproof it, Dual Carriageway even if current traffic levels only justify 2+1, because 2+1 lacks capacity and leaves too much traffic stuck between overtaking lanes, annoying drivers unnecessarily.

[Zoney]

The A5 HQDC project is really needed. The A5 as it currently stands is under capacity and in sections, blatantly dangerous. Derry is now the only city on the island of Ireland that is not connected to another major population centre by dual carriageway or motorway.

Well, for now, Limerick and Waterford join that - neither interurban to Dublin is finished yet.

Also under some definitions and official status, Kilkenny is a city and will have only an S2 spur to the M9 (a bit curious given that Ennis, a town, albeit the size of Sligo, has a D2 link to the M18).

[nirs]

The Northern Ireland Executive had already decided to prioritise the dualling of the A6 over the A5. The remaining S2 part of the A6 was divided into three schemes - Randalstown to Castledawson, Castledawson to Dungiven (the Glenshane Pass) and Dungiven to Derry. The first of these was to be built first, then the third. The middle section - with the lowest traffic and highest average speeds - was put on the long finger. The plans for the A5 included a new 2+1 bypass of Omagh and a 2+1 upgrade of the section from Strabane to Derry but that was it.

When Dublin offered to part-fund the dualling of the A5 (they offered around 1/3 of the cost) this really threw the cat among the pigeons. The Randalstown to Castledawson scheme was delayed, perhaps in order to divert money to the A5. The Derry to Dungiven scheme will still go ahead, but with no firm timescale. Huge amounts of money (>£600m) have been diverted from other schemes to suddenly fund the A5 dualling scheme. The offer of money from the Republic is a big boost, but it has reversed the Executive's own decision to prioritise the A6 over the A5.

[loch_cuan73]

Haven't driven the full length of this road very often, mostly just the Ballygawley to Omagh section, however when I drove it in full the section from Omagh to LDerry always seemed to take ages getting stuck in lines of traffic, must be very unsafe for traffic trying to access the road from a side road, lots of agricultural vehicles also. IMO the dual carriageway is much needed. As for the point on fuel emissions, sitting crawling along in stop start traffic must burn much more fuel than cruising at 60mph.

[bothar]

I happened to thumb through a copy of the Irish News yesterday. There was an article about a proposal by NI Conservative Ian Parsely to toll the A4/A5/A6. His point was that NI could only have a "motorway" network as good as the Republic if the same strategy of having some income from tolls was used. The Irish News illustrated the article with a modified picture of an ADS on the ROI M1 near the Drogheda toll, the sign was modified as if on the A6.

Of course any official interest in tolls was denied.

[Enceladus]

I actually think in many ways the A6 should have been prioritised over the A5 scheme. After all the A6 connects the two largest cities in Northern Ireland, is a direct continuation of the M2 and I would love to see the AADT traffic figures for the A6 compared to the A5. That said, the A5 project is also needed.

Northern Ireland was decades ahead of the Republic for a long time in terms of road infrastructure but it is now falling behind and needs significant new investment.

Aside from the proposed road schemes, I would like to see the A1 between Newry and Sprucefield significantly upgraded (including realignment in places) and made fully Category 8 HQDC, the A55 Belfast outer ring joined to the M1 as originally planned, the A26 from Frosses to Coleriane fully dualled and the M3 extended to Bangor behind Holywood as originally planned.

And...

[bothar]

Any news on the A5 scheme or was anyone at the presentations last week? Someone on boards.ie reports that there is new detail on the website.

Mind you I think this scheme might be one where there is a delay between design and construction.

[nirs]

Downloading the leaflets while we speak. Prob won't have time to look at them in detail tonight, but you can find them here http://www.a5wtc.com/Pre_Orders_Exhibition.aspx

I was speaking to someone quite senior in the Civil Service a couple of weeks ago who said he is convinced that the scheme will go ahead as planned if only because "you don't look a gift horse in the mouth". In addition, there was a meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council Transport Sectorial last week and Dublin put their signature to a document outlining milestones and phased payments. This is a new thing and they've signed up to it, so no indications that they're backing out. I did a bit of analysis of the budgets and even with the Roads Service capital investment budget cut by 50% (which is more than is planned) the scheme is still affordable if you sacrifice other schemes such as work on the A6 between Derry and Dungiven and the A2 Greenisland upgrade.

[Enceladus]

I really hope that scheme goes ahead as planned, even if it is phased is would bring enormous benefits to the Western part of Northern Ireland. The state of the Republic's finanaces are really dire and the upcoming budget will be savage. The possibility of the ECB or the IMF coming in here is a very real one that is increasing by the day.

I still think the A6 upgrades should be prioritised over the A5.

[nirs]

Just had a quick look at the plans. The thing that really made me spit my tea out was the plans for Ballygawley. The plan is to demolish the roundabout and D2 link road that has LITERALLY JUST OPENED (this year) at the end of the A4 upgrade and replace it with a flyover and two MORE roundabouts. You have to see it to believe it. If I lived in that area I would be at my wits end.

If it happens, the new D2 link road and roundabout may only be in existence for 2 or 3 years. Surely some record?

Latest proposals for Balylgawley:

[si404]

Junction numbers!

I note that Junction 4 and 5 form an onslip and offslip that both allow access to the A38, and junction 6 finishes the junction (though is the other side of a river). A bit wierd with the numbers there.

Interestingly not dual south the A28 roundabout, and I can imagine that those roundabouts with the A4 and N14/N15 would be busy, though the latter would be harder to grade separate. Given the A32 is getting a full roundabout interchange (when's the last time we built one of those in the UK? OK, we're finishing one with the M74, but dumbbells are the vogue), you'd expect higher powered junctions there.

The northern end peters out at New Buildings with a couple of roundabouts. I would have thought that New Buildings - Derry is the busiest section of the A5?

[bothar]

The northern end peters out at New Buildings with a couple of roundabouts. I would have thought that New Buildings - Derry is the busiest section of the A5?

I imagine the northern section is largely a case of undecided what to do.

[nirs]

Yes, there is a plan to build a bridge across the Foyle at Newbuildings which ties naturally in to this end of the scheme. Roads Service seem to be opposed to dualling all the way into the city to Craigavon Bridge, which probably makes sense.

This, incidentally, is why we need this new road. This accident occurred on the A5 on Wednesday and a man lost his life. No details are given, but from the images it may possibly have been a head-on impact or similar glancing blow. If so, it would not have happened on a dual-carriageway.

[nirs]

There is a lot of speculation that the Irish contribution to the A5 scheme may not happen. So what would happen? Below is a list of all projects due to get underway in Northern Ireland during 2011, 2012 and 2013.

A32 Cherrymount Link, Enniskillen --- £16m 2011
A6 dualling Randalstown to Castledawson --- £120m 2011
A2 Shore Road dualling, Greenisland --- £55m 2011/12
A5 dualling Derry to Aughnacloy --- £444m* 2012
A29 Cookstown Bypass --- £30m 2012
Belfast Rapid Transit System --- £150m 2012
A8 dualling to Larne --- £113m 2013
A6 dualling Derry to Dungiven --- £390m 2013

*Excludes £400m contribution from Rep of Ireland. Total A5 project cost is currently estimated at £844m.

This is a total to NI of £1.3bn. If the budget is cut by (say) 40% then that becomes £790m. So we COULD afford the £844m cost of the A5 scheme, provided we postponed every other scheme listed above and ate a bit into the 2014 budget. That seems like too high a price to me, but it could be done.

[DLR]

Once Osbourne's cheque clears...

[nirs]

For info, these are the predicted AADTs for the new road in 2015:

Derry to Strabane - 22k
Strabane to Omagh - 17k
Omagh to Ballygawley - 13k
Ballygawley to Aughnacloy - 8k

If built, the last section will probably be one of the lowest-trafficked dual-carriageways in Northern Ireland.

[odlum]

A 4 year budgetary plan is currently being unveiled. Says Metro North and DART Underground are going ahead as well as other projects so all is not lost.

I persume there are NI journalists in there amongst all the journalists who might put forward a question. Live here

http://www.rte.ie/news/player_live.html#schedule


EDIT: They are proceeding with cross border projects. Cowen just said it himself in response to a UTV journalist.

[jaytee]

The A5WTC could be justified in the following timescale. Stage 1 from the Derry - Strabane built between 2013-2016, Stage 2 Strabane to Omagh 2016-2019 and Stage 3 the least trafficed stage from Omagh to Aughnacloy by 2019-2022. This would allow the budgets over the next 10 years to focus also on the A6 DC upgrades. Surely the A6 LDerry- Dungiven should be built before the A5 Stage 3 Omagh to the Border. A6 Rand- Castle 2012-2015 and Derry- Dung 2015-2018 or somewhere close to those timescales. I'm all in favour of the new A5DC but dubious about the timescales. Hello to everyone, great to be a new member of this site.