N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

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Owain
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Owain »

Enceladus wrote:They really need to get a move on with this project. The A5 corridor badly needs upgrading.
This is the second chance they've got to use the tactics suggested in Bother's brilliant post above, as I've got to drive the damned thing again on Sunday.

The good news is that I do enjoy the N2 bit.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by bothar »

Owain wrote:This is the second chance they've got to use the tactics suggested in Bother's brilliant post above, as I've got to drive the damned thing again on Sunday.
It doesn't work in the wet, you'll just have to wait :D
The good news is that I do enjoy the N2 bit.
The N2 isn't the worst, although some people also cut along the N53 to join the M1, although this has been closed for improvements on and off.

The N2 from Slane to Ashbourne is largely as it was in the 19th century. In earlier periods it was regarded as one of the best roads in Ireland, allegedly so good because the future King Edward VII wanted to be able to get quickly to his mistress in Slane.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by nirs »

Well it looks like the A5 could be back on hold - another legal challenge has been lodged!

http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/new ... 5-project/

To recap: the scheme passed its public inquiry and was about to get underway in 2012 when it was halted by an ultimately successful legal challenge. This resulted in the vested land being given back to the landowners and all work ceasing. We've now had 4 years of additional environmental impact assessments, and the second public inquiry is scheduled to begin in October. Construction of the first phase is due to get underway in late 2017, subject to the Inquiry.

We have to see if the High Court allows the judicial review. If they do, it's hard to see how the public inquiry could go ahead until the judicial review is complete. If that happens, construction could get delayed at least into 2018. This would also create a headache for the Department for Infrastructure since they'd then have an unspent funding allocation for the scheme that would be returned to the Department of Finance. If they gave it back to the DfI for other schemes you could see a bit more progress on either the A6 or York Street Interchange.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Owain »

nirs wrote:Well it looks like the A5 could be back on hold - another legal challenge has been lodged!

http://www.tyronecon.co.uk/articles/new ... 5-project/
That report quotes the opponents as saying "Our take on the dual carriageway is that it is not necessary".

Perhaps they should try driving on it (in something other than a tractor).
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by AndyB »

I've skimmed the 2013 judgement again. Unless they have found new grounds not already covered in it, I don't they'll succeed, and the Department will presumably argue that the application for leave should fail as it's already been dealt with - the only way I can think of as a non-lawyer for AA5A to go forward is to actually appeal the 2013 judgement to the Court of Appeal.

PAC is already taking account of the application and will wait for the courts to decide whether it is going to determine the scope of the inquiry. Elsewhere on the site, TransportNI have indicated that they consider the scope should simply be the business arising from the 2013 judgement - ie Environmental Statement, and the new Direction and Vesting orders.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by bothar »

Not quite the A5, but Monaghan Co. Council have tendered for design work for the upgrading of the N2.
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publi ... PID=128940

This is the earlier work on the concept .
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Berk »

How is the appeal going (or not going)??
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

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Berk wrote:How is the appeal going (or not going)??
The A5 challenge was due to be heard last week but it’s been postponed to September due to the Arc21 incinerator appeal. DFI lost the Arc21 case because the judge ruled that senior civil servants could not make decisions without a minister. Since one of the grounds of the A5 challenge is exactly that point, the courts have deferred the A5 hearing until DFI’s appeal of the Arc21 ruling is heard. If they lose the appeal then NI is effectively paralysed.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Berk »

Indeed, that would have much wider ramifications than an incinerator, or a road scheme not going ahead.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by AndyB »

We live in hope that as soon as costs have been awarded, DfI will proceed.

I'm guessing this is entirely procedural to cut their losses and then reauthorise under the new legislation.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by c2R »

Hopefully... Does Stormont need to be sitting again before that can happen though? It's all a mess of admin-wonkery really :(
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

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c2R wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 13:29 Hopefully... Does Stormont need to be sitting again before that can happen though? It's all a mess of admin-wonkery really :(
Can't imagine it is in Arlene's list of things to worry about. It's only the wild west.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Berk »

The reasons for the latest court challenge have never been made clear.

Guess they never will be now.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Chris Bertram »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 15:06
c2R wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 13:29 Hopefully... Does Stormont need to be sitting again before that can happen though? It's all a mess of admin-wonkery really :(
Can't imagine it is in Arlene's list of things to worry about. It's only the wild west.
It's her part of the world though, isn't she from Co. Fermanagh?
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Euan »

Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Nov 19, 2018 16:39 It's her part of the world though, isn't she from Co. Fermanagh?
That may be true, but neither the A5 nor the proposed dualled road is actually within Fermanagh. In fact it is hard to see how this project will be of much benefit at all to Fermanagh, at least Enniskillen anyway. The scheme will probably be better at improving connections from places like Derry, Letterkenny (and most of north Donegal) and Omagh towards Dublin via the N2. Without a doubt it goes without saying that the transport infrastructure in the western half of NI is quite poor in general, with Fermanagh and Tyrone in particular lacking adequate links to Belfast and Dublin.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by AndyB »

This is the thing.

Those in the west look at the busy dual carriageways and motorways in the east and wonder why the A4, A5 and A6 with far less traffic aren’t dual carriageways.

The congestion in the east is of an entirely different order - a collision on the M2 citybound requiring a total closure yesterday afternoon - a Sunday! - caused four miles of tailbacks of vehicles waiting to leave the M2 and a further two miles to go along the A2.

A similar collision in the west of the province simply wouldn’t have the same impact.

I support the A5 scheme on the pragmatic grounds that it should be done properly or not at all, rather than adding to NI’s long history of wasting millions doing upgrades on the cheap, but in terms of impact the A5 is lower priority than the A6, which is in turn far lower priority compared to the York Street Interchange (but again more junctions need to be addressed to complete the job.)

But that’s the key problem. Because, in all fairness, there is an infrastructure deficit between west and east for reasons considerably more complex than how much gets spent on roads, it gets reduced to a comparison of £ signs - how much money is spent, rather than whether a particular road objectively needs to be made into a dual carriageway.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Berk »

Amen to that. Meanwhile, it’s disappointing that the Alternative A5 Alliance seem likely to win judgement by default...
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by Frostyj »

I think you mean Belfast/County Down when you say the East, there wouldn't be too much congestion in Ballycastle and Ballymoney etc. So you're probably generalising

Personally as someone who lives in North County Londonderry, i'm not too bothered about this. I would like to see Derry to Coleraine Dualled and Coleraine to Ballymena.

I would put the york Street interchange behind those roads, and the Road from Derry to Dungiven, as a matter of respect and principal. Equality is something that must be put into practice, and a constant improvement of Belfast infrastructure and neglect of elsewhere is discriminatory and unacceptable in 2018.
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Re: N.IRL: A5 Derry Dual Carriageway Progress updates

Post by c2R »

Frostyj wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 23:09
I would put the york Street interchange behind those roads, and the Road from Derry to Dungiven, as a matter of respect and principal. Equality is something that must be put into practice, and a constant improvement of Belfast infrastructure and neglect of elsewhere is discriminatory and unacceptable in 2018.
I fundamentally disagree - I travel through Belfast all the time to access the south and west of the island, as does a large amount of freight. Improving York Street directly improves freight and passenger journeys through the city to onward destinations. Strategic road policy should prioritise areas of significant congestion on strategic routes, and not be about political point scoring, vanity projects, or unlocking development. For the entire island, therefore, making the ports of Larne, Belfast, Dublin, Rosslare, and Ringaskiddy as accessible as possible must be a priority, and to do this means that in the north York Street is of enormous strategic value.
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