Kingskerswell bypass (Exeter-Torquay)

[roadtester]

I used the bypass for the first time at the weekend and I thought is was pretty good.

The D1 flyover is a bit odd, though - how does that cope on a busy bank holiday?

[boliston]

went along the new bypass a few weeks ago to get to paignton - the route back took me via torquay and this junction https://www.google.com/maps/@50.4865204 ... 312!8i6656 seemed a bit odd as it suddenly felt like i was joining another road that had priority from the left - it was late at night

[Chris Bertram]

I used the bypass for the first time at the weekend and I thought is was pretty good.

The D1 flyover is a bit odd, though - how does that cope on a busy bank holiday?

I think we've been told that the answer is "not all that well", though it's an improvement on before. The issue will be traffic trying to merge into the right-hand lane before the flyover conflicting with traffic needing to leave, of course. And after the flyover, slower traffic wanting to get straight back into the left-hand lane in conflict with joining traffic.

[Bryn666]

I used the bypass for the first time at the weekend and I thought is was pretty good.

The D1 flyover is a bit odd, though - how does that cope on a busy bank holiday?

I think we've been told that the answer is "not all that well", though it's an improvement on before. The issue will be traffic trying to merge into the right-hand lane before the flyover conflicting with traffic needing to leave, of course. And after the flyover, slower traffic wanting to get straight back into the left-hand lane in conflict with joining traffic.

It looks wide enough for three lanes. If anything the space is wasted by that barrier. I've no idea why a conventional S2 wasn't built... no, wait I do. Standards wonks again insisting on things that are simply not needed except to push costs up and cause trouble down the line.

[Truvelo]

The best thing would have been to buy part of the land belonging to Sainsbury's and build a proper D2 flyover even it it meant having to rebuild the store. Supermarkets have been rebuilt before for road improvements. The Tesco on the corner of the A461/A4123 was completely rebuilt to make way for a junction improvement. Another Tesco was relocated to the opposite side of the A41 when Bicester Village was expanded.

[Bryn666]

The best thing would have been to buy part of the land belonging to Sainsbury's and build a proper D2 flyover even it it meant having to rebuild the store. Supermarkets have been rebuilt before for road improvements. The Tesco on the corner of the A461/A4123 was completely rebuilt to make way for a junction improvement. Another Tesco was relocated to the opposite side of the A41 when Bicester Village was expanded.

These will undoubtedly have been driven by the superstores expanding thus necessitating the improvements.

Sainsburys won't agree to the construction of a flyover if it screws their operations which is why we have the current bodge.

I'm sure a 40 mph S4 in the mould of Lodge Lane on the A13 was doable in the available footprint.

[roadtester]

The best thing would have been to buy part of the land belonging to Sainsbury's and build a proper D2 flyover even it it meant having to rebuild the store. Supermarkets have been rebuilt before for road improvements. The Tesco on the corner of the A461/A4123 was completely rebuilt to make way for a junction improvement. Another Tesco was relocated to the opposite side of the A41 when Bicester Village was expanded.

These will undoubtedly have been driven by the superstores expanding thus necessitating the improvements.

Sainsburys won't agree to the construction of a flyover if it screws their operations which is why we have the current bodge.

I'm sure a 40 mph S4 in the mould of Lodge Lane on the A13 was doable in the available footprint.

I wondered about that option too - the barrier/central reserve takes up a bit of width and on at least one side, I think there is a hatched area for at least part of the length of the flyover almost as wide as a full lane.

Or if S4 wouldn't work, maybe three lanes with tidal flow depending on which way the main Bank holiday traffic is going?

[Bryn666]

The best thing would have been to buy part of the land belonging to Sainsbury's and build a proper D2 flyover even it it meant having to rebuild the store. Supermarkets have been rebuilt before for road improvements. The Tesco on the corner of the A461/A4123 was completely rebuilt to make way for a junction improvement. Another Tesco was relocated to the opposite side of the A41 when Bicester Village was expanded.

These will undoubtedly have been driven by the superstores expanding thus necessitating the improvements.

Sainsburys won't agree to the construction of a flyover if it screws their operations which is why we have the current bodge.

I'm sure a 40 mph S4 in the mould of Lodge Lane on the A13 was doable in the available footprint.

I wondered about that option too - the barrier/central reserve takes up a bit of width and on at least one side, I think there is a hatched area for at least part of the length of the flyover almost as wide as a full lane.

Or if S4 wouldn't work, maybe three lanes with tidal flow depending on which way the main Bank holiday traffic is going?

Works for the Saltash Tunnel but most road safety auditors would be very opposed if presented with tidal flow thanks to the idiocy of drivers.

With LED variable coloured studs and proper overhead signs it would work.

[Keiji]

The issue will be traffic trying to merge into the right-hand lane before the flyover conflicting with traffic needing to leave, of course. And after the flyover, slower traffic wanting to get straight back into the left-hand lane in conflict with joining traffic.

Weaving actually isn't an issue at all from what I've seen. The issue is purely one of capacity: not enough lanes to support all the traffic.

[Euan]

The Sainsbury's store at Penn Inn is quite large, so they wouldn't have lost out that much if the flyover had been D2 rather than D1. What does seem strange though is why they decided to go for a complex T junction at the south end of the bypass with different traffic flows passing right through each other rather than a simple roundabout.

[Bryn666]

The right turners would have screwed a roundabout completely. The weird arrangement allows much shorter signal stages that will move more vehicles per minute than a roundabout there could have dreamt of.

[jackal]

I'm sure they could have squeezed a D2 flyover in there if they'd really wanted. It's essentially D2+1 as it is. I note the southbound onslip is two full lanes and clearly doesn't need them - one of them is full of hatching and 'get out' arrows. They could've eaten up that space by widening the flyover. Perhaps they still could.

[Truvelo]

I suspect there is a requirement for slip roads to be two lanes wide even if only one lane is used. This could explain why so many modern slip roads on A roads have a hard shoulder which ends at the merge.

[Keiji]

I'm sure they could have squeezed a D2 flyover in there if they'd really wanted. It's essentially D2+1 as it is. I note the southbound onslip is two full lanes and clearly doesn't need them - one of them is full of hatching and 'get out' arrows. They could've eaten up that space by widening the flyover. Perhaps they still could.

Actually the southbound on-slip does need two lanes. As with any signalised junction (roundabout in this case), traffic comes off in bunches. Whenever it's even moderately busy, you will see both lanes fill up with traffic, then the lights change just in time for it to not back up onto the roundabout as the traffic merges into one lane and clears off. By the time the traffic has cleared, lights have changed again and the process repeats.

This is indeed why many short sections of road after a junction have two lanes that soon merge into one - seems we especially like them here in Torbay, the ring road through Paignton now has such arrangements at almost every junction, and it's a massive improvement compared to how it was when there was only one lane.

I suspect there is a requirement for slip roads to be two lanes wide even if only one lane is used. This could explain why so many modern slip roads on A roads have a hard shoulder which ends at the merge.

There may well be, in order to allow emergency vehicles to get past a queue, or to allow a broken down vehicle to not block the road completely. However, even though the northbound side of the flyover has spare hatched down space for this, the southbound side is physically only one lane wide so if there was such a requirement it'd be breached here.

[jackal]

I'm sure they could have squeezed a D2 flyover in there if they'd really wanted. It's essentially D2+1 as it is. I note the southbound onslip is two full lanes and clearly doesn't need them - one of them is full of hatching and 'get out' arrows. They could've eaten up that space by widening the flyover. Perhaps they still could.

Actually the southbound on-slip does need two lanes. As with any signalised junction (roundabout in this case), traffic comes off in bunches. Whenever it's even moderately busy, you will see both lanes fill up with traffic, then the lights change just in time for it to not back up onto the roundabout as the traffic merges into one lane and clears off. By the time the traffic has cleared, lights have changed again and the process repeats.

This is indeed why many short sections of road after a junction have two lanes that soon merge into one - seems we especially like them here in Torbay, the ring road through Paignton now has such arrangements at almost every junction, and it's a massive improvement compared to how it was when there was only one lane.

Of course I know how it works, I just wonder if it really needs to be so long (275m including the hatched area), which seemed more to do with matching the length of the slip road than actual merging requirements. The second lane would more normally be merged in within 50m in an urban area.

If you're sure it needs that length then they could have just moved the slip over to the east. The supermarket is a red herring as it seems you can add a lane's width on the other side with the loss of at most one residential property. Even there it could be that they just need to take the already blocked-off access road rather than the house itself (conveniently it already has a stone retaining wall!).

[Bendo]

I've heard rumors now and then about having cameras put in ever since just months after it opened, so I wouldn't hold my breath!

Looks like it's all been agreed so you won't be waiting much longer. https://www.devonnewscentre.info/averag ... n-highway/

[Keiji]

Yep - the first Yellow Vultures™ were in on Thursday, and as of yesterday people in the right hand lane have been doing a max of ~53mph on my speedo (probably around 48-50mph true, haven't used my satnav for a while). Previously this was often 60+, sometimes even at times when the left lane was running at 40ish. Gonna take a little while to get used to (and will be interesting to see if the average speed of the left lane increases due to more people using the right lane), but it's nice to see the speed differential gone IMO.

This is all on Edginswell - Penn Inn so far though. I haven't been on the southbound Ware Barton - Penn Inn stretch, where I've also heard they plan to bring the 50 signs 500m further north. It's not clear from the article if any have been installed here, so I'll try and give an update next time I do go that way if anything has changed.

[Euan]

The new road must have been quite considerably more heavily used than was anticipated at the time it was built, otherwise they surely would have installed the speed cameras from the start. It is interesting that the section of the A380 north of Penn Inn is also planned to have speed restrictions.

[Keiji]

Well written article of the average speed cameras' installation here: https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... 80-2484406

The 50mph limit extension at Penn Inn is yet to come but I assume it'll be done during February as suggested in the article.

[Phil]

The best thing would have been to buy part of the land belonging to Sainsbury's and build a proper D2 flyover even it it meant having to rebuild the store. Supermarkets have been rebuilt before for road improvements. The Tesco on the corner of the A461/A4123 was completely rebuilt to make way for a junction improvement. Another Tesco was relocated to the opposite side of the A41 when Bicester Village was expanded.

These will undoubtedly have been driven by the superstores expanding thus necessitating the improvements.

Sainsburys won't agree to the construction of a flyover if it screws their operations which is why we have the current bodge.

I'm sure a 40 mph S4 in the mould of Lodge Lane on the A13 was doable in the available footprint.

The relocation of the Tesco superstore a Bicester had nothing to do with road changes - ore even Tesco's own needs come to that!

The entire move was paid for by the owners of "Bicester Village Designer Outlet Centre' who not only wanted to expand the size of their operation but who also felt having an 'ordinary' supermarket next door to their designer shops* lowered the tone somewhat.


* Such is the reputation of the place in China that folk regularly fly in to Heathrow with virtually empty suitcase then fly back within 24 hours with the same suitcases bluging at the seems with designer clothes and shoes (quite a few of which were made in China in the first place). Even the Marlybone - Oxford train via Bicester train service features on board announcements in Mandarin and station staff at Bicester have become very used to disposing of vast quantities of designer shoeboxes....