Speed Limit Cuts

[Glen]

This is the version without the swearing bleeped.
https://www.newsflare.com/video/161476/ ... osive-rant

[SteveA30]

So that's the problem with the A27, fighting in the carriageway. No need to waste millions on bypasses and GSJ's, a few Road Rage Laybys (RRL's) should sort it......

[Berk]

I notice it took place at “that” crossroads. Is it fair to blame someone for slow driving in those circumstances?? The next set of lights is just 100yds further up.

It’s not unknown for traffic to back up to the first set of lights from the second - so you could be excused for thinking it’s not possible to move off yet.

[fras]

Sorry to bang on about this, but the article below appeared on the BBC Business News pages today:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42012388

There is a piece of text about road transport productivity: -

"If you're a coffee shop worker, it's the value added in the sales of coffees, tea and food. On a pie-making production line, it's the pies you turn out. If you're a lorry driver, it's how much you deliver.
Now think of that lorry driver stuck in a traffic jam. With too little investment in new roads and too many cars and lorries using them, his trips are slower. However hard he works, he can't keep delivering more than before. His productivity stalls"

Surely the slower we all go, (assuming no change in demand for travel), the more traffic there is on the roads. Journeys take longer so the vehicles are on the road for longer so the capacity of the road is no longer sufficient to handle it. In the 50s, the urban limit was 30 mph everywhere, so new, higher, limits, (40 and 50 mph),were introduced to be applied to suitable roads to get more capacity out of them. Yet now we are going backwards, with governments wanting vast areas at 20 mph. And higher limits like 40 or 50 are being reduced to 30. Princess Road in Manchester is a case in point, once 40 now 30. No doubt Kingsway will be next. Now, I'm not suggesting the limits be raised to 100 mph, but surely this constant reduction of speed limits must be having an effect. Am I right on the arithmetic ?

[Bryn666]

No. Because that is assuming these roads that were once NSL and are now 50 have somehow been magically realigned to remove all the rubbish bits that warrant the lower speed limit, Terry Truck is still probably averaging 34mph or so.

There is no evidence lower speed limits harm the economy, and even if they did the offset in fewer fatalities has saved UK plc more.

[Berk]

No. Because that is assuming these roads that were once NSL and are now 50 have somehow been magically realigned to remove all the rubbish bits that warrant the lower speed limit, Terry Truck is still probably averaging 34mph or so.

What about stuff that’s been added - like humps, pinch-points, gateways, islands etc?? Even more hazards to worry about...

There is no evidence lower speed limits harm the economy, and even if they did the offset in fewer fatalities has saved UK plc more.

I thought that was Brake talking for a moment. Thought it was only elected members who were supposed to say things like that, not the staff as well.

[Bryn666]

I don't like lower speed limits everywhere either, but the numbers don't lie. When you factor in the cost to the economy of a fatal collision, which includes the lost earning power of the deceased, etc, you are looking at upwards of £1m per fatal.

Are you telling me that lower speed limits cost the ecomomy the equivalent of 1,500+ lots of £1m as that's the approximate reduction in fatalities since 2000. If it was I am fairly sure the RHA and the other powerful lobby groups would have reversed the trend. Indeed, over the last few years absolute fatalities have risen (although total vehicle miles travelled have also risen); is that due to the 'end of the war on the motorist' and a reduction in funding for road safety schemes or other factors?

The fact HGVs can now legally do 50 on single carriageways in England and Wales suggests that the freight companies are content with how things are. Remember we are where we are because of idiots who cannot be trusted with a motor vehicle. I'd suggest if you want to go back to lovely NSL country lanes everywhere and no humps you campaign for mandatory retesting of drivers every 3 years. Get the real crud off the roads.

[A9NWIL]

I don't like lower speed limits everywhere either, but the numbers don't lie. When you factor in the cost to the economy of a fatal collision, which includes the lost earning power of the deceased, etc, you are looking at upwards of £1m per fatal.

Are you telling me that lower speed limits cost the ecomomy the equivalent of 1,500+ lots of £1m as that's the approximate reduction in fatalities since 2000. If it was I am fairly sure the RHA and the other powerful lobby groups would have reversed the trend. Indeed, over the last few years absolute fatalities have risen (although total vehicle miles travelled have also risen); is that due to the 'end of the war on the motorist' and a reduction in funding for road safety schemes or other factors?

The fact HGVs can now legally do 50 on single carriageways in England and Wales suggests that the freight companies are content with how things are. Remember we are where we are because of idiots who cannot be trusted with a motor vehicle. I'd suggest if you want to go back to lovely NSL country lanes everywhere and no humps you campaign for mandatory retesting of drivers every 3 years. Get the real crud off the roads.

Would that include getting rid of the people who deliberately drive at about 10mph lower than the speed limit when they dont need to?

I wouldnt mind people getting retested if they are caught doing something dangerous, but the amount of money that it would cost drivers to retest every 3 years many people wouldnt bother and would give up!

It would be better if the 85th percentile was reintroduce, it that still means speed limits are a little slower than 50 years ago on some roads then so be it, but at least 90%+ drivers would be driving within the legal limit.

[Bryn666]

There may be a multitude of reasons that you cannot see as to why they are driving slower;

* Space saver wheel
* Fault with vehicle
* Looking for junction or destination
* Unfamiliar with the road

It is a nonsense to demand people always drive at 60 in a 60 limit. The general rule is you should make the appropriate progress and display consideration to others by letting them past if need be.

The cost of a driving test compared to the initial outlay for lessons is minimal. Although you know, what price on safety eh...

[fras]

It is a nonsense to demand people always drive at 60 in a 60 limit. The general rule is you should make the appropriate progress and display consideration to others by letting them past if need be.

Well, I'm certainly with you on that one. However, it would be nice if those who tootle along at 40 mph pulled over to let others past now and again. There is a clause in the Highway Code on this one.

However my last post was really about urban areas. There surely must come a point where it just all clogs up.

[A9NWIL]

There may be a multitude of reasons that you cannot see as to why they are driving slower;

* Space saver wheel
* Fault with vehicle
* Looking for junction or destination
* Unfamiliar with the road

It is a nonsense to demand people always drive at 60 in a 60 limit. The general rule is you should make the appropriate progress and display consideration to others by letting them past if need be.

The cost of a driving test compared to the initial outlay for lessons is minimal. Although you know, what price on safety eh...

OK well that to some extent is understandable on a 60mph road, but I get these issues on a 40mph road quite often.
On a 60mph road I will just look for an opportunity to pass them, which there are more of usually, but on a 40mph road, there may not be such safe opportunities.

OK so if we look at the points in question:

* Space saver wheel - OK thats undersatandable on a road higher than 50mph, not on anything 50mph or lower though
* Fault with vehicle - well perhaps they should call their breakdown and if they dont have any then they are a numpty for not having it (money isnt an excuse if they cant aford breakdown, just like car insurance and tax then they cant afford to drive). If they are taking it to a garage to be repaired then they should pull over to let people pass them.
* Looking for junction or destination - if on a road higher than 30mph, find a suitable place to pull over and check their map or google maps or something. If they dont have a map book they should get one they can be brought quite inexpensively.
* Unfamiliar with the road - as last option pull over in a safe place and check a map.

Im sure that people do just deliberately drive slow though, part of the slow = safe brigade!

[Bryn666]

And if they are playing self appointed policeman it is your job to either stay back at a safe distance or safely pass them. Life is too short to get wound up about them, and if you are getting wound up about them you are contributing to the problem...

[A9NWIL]

And if they are playing self appointed policeman it is your job to either stay back at a safe distance or safely pass them. Life is too short to get wound up about them, and if you are getting wound up about them you are contributing to the problem...

And what else can anyone actually do legally? Driving slightly closer than normal would give them an indication that you really want to go faster, not so as to be dangerous, but considering they are going slower and your force to too, that means you can go a little closer safely anyway.

[Johnathan404]

Surely the slower we all go, (assuming no change in demand for travel), the more traffic there is on the roads. Journeys take longer so the vehicles are on the road for longer so the capacity of the road is no longer sufficient to handle it.

A better case to make would be if you doubled a lorry's journey time, that vehicle can only do half as much work. You therefore would need to double the number of vehicles on the road and in doing so increase your operational costs.

Your arithmetic is correct, it's just that the effect is dwarfed by something as simple as one of the many collisions which cause chaos every day. So if the economic impact of delays to goods is that important to you, you should be calling for a 30mph motorway speed limit to reduce the number of severe accidents!

[ajuk]

This might be of some interest here.

[Chris Bertram]

Well, after years of expecting it to happen, it finally has. Not sure how long ago, though since I haven't been that way for over a year until yesterday.

Daleside Road, Nottingham, the road that runs alongside Colwick Park, Nottingham Racecourse, was always NSL between the roundabout giving entrance to the racecourse, and the traffic light junction with Vale Road, a distance of maybe a mile or so. It is straight and wide, and there was no good reason for the limit to be lower.

Now, however, it's had the treatment - bus/cycle/ULEV lanes in each direction, enforced by gawd knows how many cameras, and as a result, although the carriageway is now possibly wider than before, it's got a 40 limit. It's hard to see what gain the new lanes will mean for the buses etc, but clearly boxes have been ticked all round, and no doubt the city council is patting itself on the back.

There *is* still a section of semi-urban NSL not too far away from there. I won't say where it is, in case the wrong people are reading this, but it's a county council road rather than the city, so it may last a little longer.

[James]

Well, after years of expecting it to happen, it finally has. Not sure how long ago, though since I haven't been that way for over a year until yesterday.

Daleside Road, Nottingham, the road that runs alongside Colwick Park, Nottingham Racecourse, was always NSL between the roundabout giving entrance to the racecourse, and the traffic light junction with Vale Road, a distance of maybe a mile or so. It is straight and wide, and there was no good reason for the limit to be lower.

Now, however, it's had the treatment - bus/cycle/ULEV lanes in each direction, enforced by gawd knows how many cameras, and as a result, although the carriageway is now possibly wider than before, it's got a 40 limit. It's hard to see what gain the new lanes will mean for the buses etc, but clearly boxes have been ticked all round, and no doubt the city council is patting itself on the back.

There *is* still a section of semi-urban NSL not too far away from there. I won't say where it is, in case the wrong people are reading this, but it's a county council road rather than the city, so it may last a little longer.

Shame, I have good memories of enjoying the Colwick loop road when (virtually) the whole thing was NSL from Gedling to the racecourse. The new bypass put the nail in the coffin for the county council section, now the city council has nuked their side as well

Sadly par for the course for any improvement of this kind these days is for the speed limit to get slashed. I'm waiting to see the 50 signs on the A52 from Spondon to Pentagon island to appear, as the council there has decided as they're widening the road the NSL must go.

[Truvelo]

Look what I saw today attached to a post. To be fair there is currently NSL through the village which even the likes of me will have a hard time trying to achieve so it's not entirely unreasonable. I therefore won't be writing a letter objecting to this.

[Euan]

Look what I saw today attached to a post. To be fair there is currently NSL through the village which even the likes of me will have a hard time trying to achieve so it's not entirely unreasonable. I therefore won't be writing a letter objecting to this.

There must be hardly any villages that have NSL going through them. Unless the road is properly separated from housing and other properties, it would not typically have a speed limit greater than 40mph (occasionally 50mph). I have passed through villages even smaller than Osmaston on roads that have had speed restrictions, even on minor roads.

[Berk]

I think you’ll find that standards have sharpened over the years. One upon a time it was definitely not uncommon to have small, rural villages with an NSL limit.

From about the 80s onwards it may have started to be cut back to 50, but 40 or less really only dates from the turn of the millennium.