Speed Limit Cuts

[Chris Bertram]

... why on earth does the A38 around Bassetts Pole need to be 60 ...

It's a little bit winding, but I'd have left it at 70. However, I think it's no longer a trunk road, and since Staffordshire got their hands on it ... Staffs CC really seem to hate leaving any classified road at NSL.

[Fenlander]

Not just that, what if the driverless car makes a mistake of its own?? They're often said to be infallible, but what if one of the sensors reads a false positive?? Or the car slams its brakes on for some reason, precipitating a rear-end shunt??

Due to the nature of the roads I drive my MINI often comes up with a "front camera obscured, please clean" message and it only uses it for a passive warning system, not actively controlling anything. I'd imagine any form of auto drive system would struggle on the wet & muddy rural roads where following anything sees your front end plastered in a fine mud within a few miles, the rear end becoming equally dirty in the same time.

[Big L]

It is indeed being cut and not to the usual 50 either - it's being slashed straight to 40, see here

That just says that Penkridge council want the county council to make it 40.

The first bit out of Penkridge is 50.

The (previously) 40 section of B5012 in Penkridge has now been reduced to 30. I can see why.

[Truvelo]

The (previously) 40 section of B5012 in Penkridge has now been reduced to 30. I can see why.

I can't see any justification. It forms a nice eastern bypass and any attempt to make it less attractive to through traffic could force more vehicles through the narrow villages streets which is actually a shorter route for traffic heading to the A449 north.

[mark3evo]

Not just that, what if the driverless car makes a mistake of its own?? They're often said to be infallible, but what if one of the sensors reads a false positive?? Or the car slams its brakes on for some reason, precipitating a rear-end shunt??

Due to the nature of the roads I drive my MINI often comes up with a "front camera obscured, please clean" message and it only uses it for a passive warning system, not actively controlling anything. I'd imagine any form of auto drive system would struggle on the wet & muddy rural roads where following anything sees your front end plastered in a fine mud within a few miles, the rear end becoming equally dirty in the same time.

this dash for everything unmanned does my head in.

roads clogged up in future years hundreds of unmanned cars taking kids to school ...

[martin2345uk]

The new 30 signs are up now on the A5103 Princess Road in South Manchester, with yellow signs saying it will be enforced from tomorrow. they've left some 40 repeater signs in the central reservation, maybe they'll be removed today or tonight.

30 still seems ridiculous for this stretch of road.

[mark3evo]

I am confused why the BBC have released this.

It's as a result of this DfT press release:
http://nds.coi.gov.uk/Content/detail.as ... tMode=true

which publishes the results of the first year of the Portsmouth 20mph scheme.

so report shows a small statistical reduction.
i could show a major reduction by bringing the man with RED FLAG back
sorted.

[Glenn A]

NSL ended on the A596 from the roundabout with the A595 at Lillyhall to Workington Golf Course, the section from the roundabout to the pedestrian crossing reduced to 40 mph from 50 mph, from the pedestrian crossing to the edge of the golf course from 60 to 50, and the bends next to the golf course 30 mph from 60. The reason probably being that there have been numerous accidents on the section next to the golf course and the section from the roundabout to the pedestrian crossing also contains access to two busy car dealerships.

[fras]

The new 30 signs are up now on the A5103 Princess Road in South Manchester, with yellow signs saying it will be enforced from tomorrow. they've left some 40 repeater signs in the central reservation, maybe they'll be removed today or tonight.

30 still seems ridiculous for this stretch of road.

Has any reason been put forward, or is it just the secret members of the Blob in action within Manchester council ?

[Bryn666]

There's an entire thread on it elsewhere on SABRE. It's an experimental order for 18 months following two fatalities involving pedestrians.

I think Manchester City Council will need to provide a lot of engineering measures to achieve compliance. The carriageways are too wide, for a start, the sightlines are too good, especially along the original 30 at Moss Side.

It is, however, far less objectionable than the 40 limit on the A580 which was also pure political kneejerking to fatalities at junctions without pedestrian provision - something that the hugely costly bus lane works totally failed to address even though every set of signals was rebuilt.

[chris486]

All eyes must be on the neighbouring A5103 - no one has mentioned the 40 between the M60 J8 and Derbyshire Lane East through Stretford along the A56.

It is now 30.

[fras]

Just what are all these speed limit cuts meant to achieve ? In the "Good Old Days", all urban roads were 30 mph, although there was no limit on country roads, and the old MoT introduced the higher 40 mph limit so that certain suitable roads in towns could be raised to improve traffic flow. There used to be a lot of 40 mph roads, and statistics showed this limit was the one with the highest level of compliance without enforcement.

So was the old logic wrong then ?

[Johnathan404]

The A27 between Paulsgrove and Cosham has been reduced from NSL to 50.

As a suburban D2 with a mid-way roundabout which prevents most traffic from exceeding 40, managed by a city council, I'm stunned it lasted so long.

[Bryn666]

Just what are all these speed limit cuts meant to achieve ? In the "Good Old Days", all urban roads were 30 mph, although there was no limit on country roads, and the old MoT introduced the higher 40 mph limit so that certain suitable roads in towns could be raised to improve traffic flow. There used to be a lot of 40 mph roads, and statistics showed this limit was the one with the highest level of compliance without enforcement.

So was the old logic wrong then ?

Yes and no. Roads are now seen as more than just arteries for cars.

See the movement vs place discussion that provides much of the rationale behind urban traffic engineering.

Lower speed limits are a cop out for politicians who are too afraid to be radical and promote making streets function as a place. By putting a 30 limit on a dual carriageway like the A5103 the politicians can claim it is now more welcoming to pedestrians and cyclists which is patent nonsense as all the original hazards still remain.

[ais523]

Not being able to drive, my main interaction with most roads in the local area is as a pedestrian.

A well-designed 40mph road is actually safer for pedestrians than a typical 30mph road. A good 40mph road, from my point of view, would tend to have pavements set back from the carriageway (or perhaps separated with railings), and frequent pedestrian crossings (either signalised or grade-separated). That really doesn't put me at much risk from traffic (and also helps reduce the chance that I fall into the road). My favourite example of this is the A38 between Northfield and Selly Oak, which has never felt problematic to me as a pedestrian despite having (for much of my life) a 40mph limit. Parts of it have now been reduced to 30mph for no obvious reason. (That said, I believe there have been a few fatal accidents there over the years; I don't know the details.)

Meanwhile, a 20mph road can actually be more dangerous for pedestrians, unless the limit is very well enforced. On a 30mph road, which typically have high speed limit compliance, I know how fast cars can reach my current position and thus when it's safe to cross. On a 20mph road, am I supposed to assume that vehicles will do 20mph or that they'll do 30mph? Some cars stick to the limit, some don't, and the uncertainty makes crossing the road harder. (There's also the issue that bicycles are typically capable of going faster than 20mph, and aren't restricted by speed limits; I don't want to get hit by one of those either.)

That said, at the high end, lower speed limits are definitely more friendly for pedestrians; a 50mph road is much easier to walk alongside and to cross than a 60mph road, for example.

[Owain]

I'm not the sort to rant and rave about reduced speed limits, but the A36 has been made a 50 between Bathampton and Claverton.

In all my years driving the road, it never seemed dangerous at NSL. I don't recall ever seeing accidents there (unlike other parts of road).

What a shame.

[aj444]

The A50 into Leicester is now a continuous 40 from Markfield to Groby, just half a mile remains between Groby and the A46 at NSL. To make matters worse it's a favourite haunt of the camera vans (even in the dark)....

[Owain]

The A50 into Leicester is now a continuous 40 from Markfield to Groby, just half a mile remains between Groby and the A46 at NSL. To make matters worse it's a favourite haunt of the camera vans (even in the dark)....

Do they use camera vans in the dark?

When I've been setting record times between Belfast and Derry, I've relied on the fact that's been the middle of the night.

[Ruperts Trooper]

What's the speed limit on this road?

50? 60? NSL?

It's 40mph.

The sign says 50 if you just backtrack the view a little

[Stevie D]

Just what are all these speed limit cuts meant to achieve?

They are supposed to achieve (a) safer roads and improved conditions for non-motorised road users, and/or (b) political success, depending on how cynical you are being about the proponents' motives...

In the "good old days" ™, traffic levels were a lot less, which meant that roads could sustain higher speeds more easily, and design standards were lower, which is part of the reason why far more people were killed and injured on the roads, despite the total mileage driven being dramatically lower back then. And it isn't just about cars. The importance of improving safety for cyclists and pedestrians has grown, as has the drive to make residential streets more welcoming for pedestrians and cyclists rather than just thoroughfares for motor traffic.

Unfortunately, there is also a fair heft of politician syndrome in there as well ... public outcry following an accident or perceived near miss, something must be done, this is something, therefore we must do it. Some councils are more prone to this than others!