A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

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Nwallace
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Nwallace »

Glenn A wrote:I've heard the A85 from Perth to Crianlarich is dangerous, a narrow road that has been barely improved over the decades and is busy in the tourist season.
Hm....
Some bits are a bit narrow, some bits are a bit twisty, some bits suffer from eejits parking vans and motorhomes next to lochearn such that they protrude into the already narrow road.

But most of the way from Perth certainly to St Fillans, it's your standard country road going between wee towns.
From Lochearnhead onwards is mostly better quality, the only bit I can think of that could do with some work is the Bridge that's about 10m below the road approaches on either side and sits on a corner.

Here I think: https://binged.it/2gk4Kzp


What it could also do with is the old railway being repurposed as a cycletrack and pavement, and perhapse a few more parking areas for the hillwalkers.
Routes across Scotland are rather lacking on that front. (Although saying that I've been up Glen Ogle (NCN does run up the railway here but being unsealed is basically an MTB track) and Glen Coe on bikes and it's all about timing)
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Glen »

This is the section of barrier that is to be replaced during the planned closure. (Photo from Twitter)
A82 barrier.jpg
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rileyrob
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by rileyrob »

Glenn A wrote:I've heard the A85 from Perth to Crianlarich is dangerous, a narrow road that has been barely improved over the decades and is busy in the tourist season.
I think if you asked enough people, you'd find practically every road in the country is dangerous. As others have said, the west end of Loch Earn can be fun, and that bridge in Glen Dochart is pretty nasty, but to my mind the worst bit of the road is the western entrance to Crieff, which is a horrible narrow, windy section inside the 30 limit, where the surface can mean that the car skips about a bit as well. None of it is as bad as the A84 along Loch Lubnaig, the A82 on Loch Lomond, or in a completely different context, the M6 south of Preston.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by wrinkly »

Not sure if there's a more appropriate thread for this press release:

https://www.transport.gov.scot/news/tra ... t-william/
Traffic study for Fort William

An assessment of possible short term interventions to improve journey times on the A82 through Fort William is to be carried-out.

The work will help establish if engineering improvements can be made to improve congestion and it will consider the impact of any of these changes on the surrounding roads to make sure that interventions are as effective as possible.

Transport Scotland intends to have the testing completed by early next year with the aim of making any required changes in advance of the 2018 tourist season.

A longer term appraisal of land use and transport options is also to be taken forward by The Highland Council with support from Transport Scotland. Together with the short term traffic study, this will provide an evidence base to make best use of existing infrastructure and support the planned growth of Fort William and the wider area.

Transport Minister Humza Yousaf said:

“We understand the important part that this section of the trunk road network plays in the local economy and we want to do what we can to improve journey times to support local businesses and to help people get around.

“The trunk road assessment, being undertaken this year, will help us establish if there are small interventions such as localised widening or changes to junction arrangements, which can be implemented in the short term on the trunk road in Fort William, to improve traffic flow especially at the busiest times of the year.

“Transport Scotland aim to keep stakeholders up to date through our regular meetings and correspondence with The Highland Council, the Fort William Traffic Congestion Working Group and the A82 Partnership.”

Chair of the Fort William Traffic Congestion Working Group and The A82 Partnership, Ben Thompson, said:

“I am sure residents, businesses and visitors will be delighted to hear of this progress towards addressing the well-known issues of our struggling transport infrastructure. Particularly important is the commitment from Transport Scotland to try have road improvements in place ahead of the 2018 tourist season.

“The longer term appraisal for transport options in Fort William is vital for the West Highland economy. Such improvements have been a goal of the Lochaber community for very many years and I’m encouraged to see the need has been recognised by Transport Scotland in their commitment to work with The Highland Council on the appraisal.”
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

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I think that is related to all of the speed / traffic counters and so on that were installed in the FW area (including the A830) in mid-September. As noted by the locals, they waited until all of the holiday traffic had disappeared before installing them to get a nice accurate picture of the peak season problems. :roll: I guess they will now report back (despite some locals vowing to spend the day driving back and forth to make the roads busier) that the problems aren't that bad after all...

I'm sure it's been reported upthread that previous analysis (by the council rather than TS if memory serves) suggests that around two thirds of the traffic on the A82 between town and Lochybridge also travels the A830, hence the long term desire to build the Caol Link Road. The new retail park, with roundabout, addition of a Costa drive through, and the changes at Inverlochy Roundabout (awful mini roundabout instead of lights) all seem to have added to the problems. However, the most recent complaints seem to be about the Nevis Bridge Roundabout, where the A82 turns 90 degrees, and seriously slows down lorries and buses as they try to negotiate the bend. The busier tourist season this year has also seen a substantial increase in traffic heading up/down Glen Nevis, compounding the problems.
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From the SABRE Wiki: Caol Link Road :


The Caol Link Road is part of a greater scheme to speed traffic through Fort William. It is envisaged that it will start at the An Aird junction on the A82 in Fort William, and head north / north west to cross the River Lochy and reach the B8006 in Caol. From there, an additional section would be built across the Blar Mhor to meet the A830.


The argument in favour of this scheme is that the majority of traffic at the Lochybridge Junction where the A82 and A830

... Read More
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

rileyrob wrote:I think that is related to all of the speed / traffic counters and so on that were installed in the FW area (including the A830) in mid-September. As noted by the locals, they waited until all of the holiday traffic had disappeared before installing them to get a nice accurate picture of the peak season problems. :roll: I guess they will now report back (despite some locals vowing to spend the day driving back and forth to make the roads busier) that the problems aren't that bad after all...

I'm sure it's been reported upthread that previous analysis (by the council rather than TS if memory serves) suggests that around two thirds of the traffic on the A82 between town and Lochybridge also travels the A830, hence the long term desire to build the Caol Link Road. The new retail park, with roundabout, addition of a Costa drive through, and the changes at Inverlochy Roundabout (awful mini roundabout instead of lights) all seem to have added to the problems. However, the most recent complaints seem to be about the Nevis Bridge Roundabout, where the A82 turns 90 degrees, and seriously slows down lorries and buses as they try to negotiate the bend. The busier tourist season this year has also seen a substantial increase in traffic heading up/down Glen Nevis, compounding the problems.
When you realise that if the A82 between Fort William town centre and the Lochybridge Roundabout is closed for any reason the only available diversion for many vehicles would be by the A82, A85, A827, A9, A889 and A86, it is very important that a new road is built to provide an alternative route to the Lochybridge Roundabout, whether it is a full link road to the A830 northwest or west of Caol or at least a link road across the River Lochy to Caol and the B8006. A new link road would be used heavily in the summer months by tourists travelling to Glenfinnan and Mallaig, and it could encourage further development in Caol, Banavie and Corpach.

From the SABRE Wiki: Caol Link Road :


The Caol Link Road is part of a greater scheme to speed traffic through Fort William. It is envisaged that it will start at the An Aird junction on the A82 in Fort William, and head north / north west to cross the River Lochy and reach the B8006 in Caol. From there, an additional section would be built across the Blar Mhor to meet the A830.


The argument in favour of this scheme is that the majority of traffic at the Lochybridge Junction where the A82 and A830

... Read More
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Bryn666 »

Can confirm that the A82 is utterly variable due to peak tourist season traffic.

In August 2014 it took us 4+ hours to get from Inverness to Glasgow (foolishly I wanted to knock the full road off in one go on a summer Saturday). The road is effectively a 20-30mph convoy between significant hold ups (I seem to recall Pulpit was still being done which massively held everything up). Fort William was bad, the entire Glencoe length was riddled with sightseers, and even if you ignore Pulpit, Lomondside was a total drag.

The A82 is, ultimately, completely unfit for purpose as a modern road for much of its length. It's not the 'worst' road in the UK, but it can be one of the most frustrating. It is not helped by the narrow cross-section and 1930s vintage alignments of being ruler straight, bend, ruler straight, bend.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by rileyrob »

Bryn666 wrote:It is not helped by the narrow cross-section and 1930s vintage alignments of being ruler straight, bend, ruler straight, bend.
You see, I think that is one of its plus points. It makes it so easy to overtake numpties across Rannoch Moor, whilst the 'better' more modern alignments along Loch Lomond and around Crianlarich with their long continuous curvatures are almost impossible to overtake on.

I have reached Tyndrum in the past at an average speed of about 57/8, and a maximum of 65 for a short overtaking burst, but from Tarbet down to Balloch, an average in the 50s is usually impossible, and even taking into account the roundabout at Arden, this is largely because it is so difficult to overtake anything on that stretch, even when the road is fairly quiet. All you need is a lorry doing 45/50, with 3 or 4 cars bunched up behind and there is no safe way past.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Bryn666 »

rileyrob wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:It is not helped by the narrow cross-section and 1930s vintage alignments of being ruler straight, bend, ruler straight, bend.
You see, I think that is one of its plus points. It makes it so easy to overtake numpties across Rannoch Moor, whilst the 'better' more modern alignments along Loch Lomond and around Crianlarich with their long continuous curvatures are almost impossible to overtake on.

I have reached Tyndrum in the past at an average speed of about 57/8, and a maximum of 65 for a short overtaking burst, but from Tarbet down to Balloch, an average in the 50s is usually impossible, and even taking into account the roundabout at Arden, this is largely because it is so difficult to overtake anything on that stretch, even when the road is fairly quiet. All you need is a lorry doing 45/50, with 3 or 4 cars bunched up behind and there is no safe way past.
The problem with the 30s alignment isn't the straights as you say, but rather the narrowness. Trying to land a good overtake of a car, fair enough... a HGV is a bit more of a gamble.

The improved bits down to Balloch should have been alternating 2+1. Missed opportunity.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by wrinkly »

I think that in the 1980s there was a move back to straights and bends in designing single carriageways, replacing the previous advice (that curves should be set out to the largest practicable radius) with the concept of clearly-defined overtaking and non-overtaking sections, and the increased use of hatched areas to mark the latter. However in the West Highlands the layout is likely to be largely determined by the topography.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Duncan macknight »

wrinkly wrote:I think that in the 1980s there was a move back to straights and bends in designing single carriageways, replacing the previous advice (that curves should be set out to the largest practicable radius) with the concept of clearly-defined overtaking and non-overtaking sections, and the increased use of hatched areas to mark the latter. However in the West Highlands the layout is likely to be largely determined by the topography.
Pretty much the Perth-Inverness section of the A9 was built to the idea that "curves allow overtaking better" which it did until the trees grew back and made the corners rather dogey. Same with the Loch Lomond Alexandria-Tarbert section, trees and stuff grew back and means you can't really see what's coming until it's too late. Now a days the best overtaking section on these roads are the straight sections.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

Duncan macknight wrote:
wrinkly wrote:I think that in the 1980s there was a move back to straights and bends in designing single carriageways, replacing the previous advice (that curves should be set out to the largest practicable radius) with the concept of clearly-defined overtaking and non-overtaking sections, and the increased use of hatched areas to mark the latter. However in the West Highlands the layout is likely to be largely determined by the topography.
Pretty much the Perth-Inverness section of the A9 was built to the idea that "curves allow overtaking better" which it did until the trees grew back and made the corners rather dogey. Same with the Loch Lomond Alexandria-Tarbert section, trees and stuff grew back and means you can't really see what's coming until it's too late. Now a days the best overtaking section on these roads are the straight sections.
IMO, allowing overtaking on gentle curves needs wide, flat verges to see across the curve - takes up so much space it might as well have been built as dual-carriageway!
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Nwallace »

Ruperts Trooper wrote: IMO, allowing overtaking on gentle curves needs wide, flat verges to see across the curve - takes up so much space it might as well have been built as dual-carriageway!
Which is something I've heard said on the A9 many times.
Consider north of Birnam where there's the massive visibility sections in corners with wide open flat verges on the land side.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by FtoE »

Bryn666 wrote:
rileyrob wrote:
Bryn666 wrote:It is not helped by the narrow cross-section and 1930s vintage alignments of being ruler straight, bend, ruler straight, bend.
You see, I think that is one of its plus points. It makes it so easy to overtake numpties across Rannoch Moor, whilst the 'better' more modern alignments along Loch Lomond and around Crianlarich with their long continuous curvatures are almost impossible to overtake on.

I have reached Tyndrum in the past at an average speed of about 57/8, and a maximum of 65 for a short overtaking burst, but from Tarbet down to Balloch, an average in the 50s is usually impossible, and even taking into account the roundabout at Arden, this is largely because it is so difficult to overtake anything on that stretch, even when the road is fairly quiet. All you need is a lorry doing 45/50, with 3 or 4 cars bunched up behind and there is no safe way past.
The problem with the 30s alignment isn't the straights as you say, but rather the narrowness. Trying to land a good overtake of a car, fair enough... a HGV is a bit more of a gamble.

The improved bits down to Balloch should have been alternating 2+1. Missed opportunity.
I very much agree. I’ve had a few hairy moments overtaking on the Rannoch Moor section of the A82 - great, long straights but the road is simply much too narrow (and with even narrower small bridges). You rely on the lorry or bus driver to co-operate and keep hard left. Those that know the road do, but others and especially foreign LHD buses / lorries....
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by KeithW »

FtoE wrote:
I very much agree. I’ve had a few hairy moments overtaking on the Rannoch Moor section of the A82 - great, long straights but the road is simply much too narrow (and with even narrower small bridges). You rely on the lorry or bus driver to co-operate and keep hard left. Those that know the road do, but others and especially foreign LHD buses / lorries....
You have raised a very good point, replacing those narrow bridges would seem a relatively low cost improvement, even experienced drivers like myself can find them a little alarming. I had to anchor up in June when it became apparent that a monster motorhome was intent on going through straddling the centre line.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Glenn A »

I'll say it again, the A595, every week there's at least one accident and the road isn't fit for purpose for a large part of its length. Problems seem to fall into two areas: the Carlisle- Cockermouth section can grind to a halt if Farmer Palmer decides to drive at 10 mph for miles on end in his tractor, leading to huge queues and dangerous overtaking, and the Parton- Sellafield section is completely snarled up with Sellafield traffic during rush hour, and something like an accident can see enormous tailbacks. I reckon dualling, or introducing an S2+1 section, from Bothel to Cockermouth, improving the dangerous junctions at Bothel and Mealsgate, would solve the problems on the northern section, and the long talked about Whitehaven relief road and a D2 by pass of Bigrigg would solve problems further south.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by B9127 »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-41752359 Another landslide and a complete collapse on another Highland road
Motorways travelled 2019 - M90 - M9 - M80 - M8 -M77 - M73 -A74(M) -M6-M42-M40 -A404(M) - M4 - M5 -M50 -M56 much better so far than last year
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by PaulLothian »

As far as the road closure in Knoydart is concerned, it is on a mainland road not connected to the rest of the national road system. Luckily there is only a small number of people now doubly cut-off from the rest of Scotland; Airor only has a population of 7!
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Nwallace »

rileyrob wrote:
Glenn A wrote:I've heard the A85 from Perth to Crianlarich is dangerous, a narrow road that has been barely improved over the decades and is busy in the tourist season.
I think if you asked enough people, you'd find practically every road in the country is dangerous. As others have said, the west end of Loch Earn can be fun, and that bridge in Glen Dochart is pretty nasty, but to my mind the worst bit of the road is the western entrance to Crieff, which is a horrible narrow, windy section inside the 30 limit, where the surface can mean that the car skips about a bit as well. None of it is as bad as the A84 along Loch Lubnaig, the A82 on Loch Lomond, or in a completely different context, the M6 south of Preston.
Yes, I'm not sure if it's just because I'm driving a more modern car now but I've found in the last couple of trips out that way it's no where near as bad as I remember it being.
B9127 wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-41752359 Another landslide and a complete collapse on another Highland road
Thankfully the Scottas - Airor road has a rather low usage.
Interestingly it's not shown as a Yellow on the 1:50k and 1:25k maps on Bing
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by The Devil's Armpit »

A crawler/overtaking lane on certain stretches [ where geology and cheapness allow ] on the Ballachullish-Crainlarich stretch of the A82 would be welcome, there are a few long straights that could be easily widened to include another lane.

However I find there are enough opportunities to pass slower traffic even now, but I agree re the narrow 1930 bridges, they make for hairy moments, fine for a couple of Morris 8s to pass but a bit nipped for 2 artics or motorhomes.
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