A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

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northernlight
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by northernlight »

Burns wrote:If we're going to rag on the A85 (a road I'm quite fond of but it does deserve some tough love) then this section needs to be addressed. Half the road around Loch Earn is of good quality and almost to WS2 standard. The other half resembles a unclassified road with it's narrow twists. The divide happens at the Perth & Kinross/Stirling border but last time I checked, the A85 is primary...
The A85 is a trunk road from Oban to just west of Perth on the grade-separated junction with the A9. Prior to approximately 1995, the A85 between Perth and Lochearnhead was not a trunk road, and responsibility was with the local authority, not the trunk road authority. This explains why the Perthshire section of the road at Loch Earn is of a much higher standard. Although not trunk at the time of the Loch Earn improvements, it has always been a primary route. The A85 is now non primary in Perth city and there is a detached section of the road that is non-primary in Dundee, which is a remnant of when the main Perth to Dundee road was the A85.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

northernlight wrote: The A85 is a trunk road from Oban to just west of Perth on the grade-separated junction with the A9. Prior to approximately 1995, the A85 between Perth and Lochearnhead was not a trunk road, and responsibility was with the local authority, not the trunk road authority. This explains why the Perthshire section of the road at Loch Earn is of a much higher standard. Although not trunk at the time of the Loch Earn improvements, it has always been a primary route. The A85 is now non primary in Perth city and there is a detached section of the road that is non-primary in Dundee, which is a remnant of when the main Perth to Dundee road was the A85.
Argyll and Strathclyde always had a poor reputation (and Argyll & Bute continues to do so). In Winter I would drive back home from Kintyre or Islay or elsewhere down there and the roads would be poor but I knew when I got to the council / region boundary into Highland they would be usually be completely clear of snow and ice. I think road maintenance was similar (of course they are all poor now! :D ).
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

There was a petition in 1935 for a road to built across Rannoch Moor

From the BNA

Dundee Courier - Monday 11 March 1935
Image © D.C.Thomson & Co. Ltd. Image created courtesy of THE BRITISH LIBRARY BOARD.
[The proposed road to Tulloch would branch off from the existing road about one and a half miles from Rannoch Station and run north up through Currour and thence along the side of Loch Treig, following practically the line of the West Highland Railway, and join the Lochaber road just below the new dam at Loch Spean—a distance of between 12 and 14 miles.] Road Estimates Down Road estimates for 1935-36 were submitted, showing expenditure of £30,617, including £3700 for alignment of the Great North Road beyond Dunkeld. The total £1196 under the estimates for the current year. Mr R. Inglis said the Highland District was the only one in the county which had been able to effect a saving.
Dundee Courier - Wednesday 13 March 1935
Image © D.C.Thomson & Co. Ltd. Image created courtesy of THE BRITISH LIBRARY BOARD.
Capture.JPG
Coincidentally I think the route North from Corrour has been improved for access to the Lodge but of course nothing over to the A82.
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rileyrob
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by rileyrob »

Thomas Telford had proposed something similar 120 years earlier: Rannoch_Road_(Thomas_Telford)! And we are still waiting...
I notice that the map in the article also includes the other Rannoch_Road from Rannoch Station to Kingshouse, which was also being suggested around the same time, and still in the pipeline in the 1960s.
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From the SABRE Wiki: Rannoch Road (Thomas Telford) :


Two hundred years ago, in May 1810, Thomas Telford wrote his fifth report to the Commissioners for Highland Roads and Bridges. Within its lengthy pages, it included proposals for a new road to connect the cattle-ferrying point from Skye at Kylerhea with the drovers favoured resting point at Killin. It was an audacious plan which would have seen many new roads built.

  • Firstly, from Glenelg over the Mam Rattagain pass to Shiel Bridge (on the A87) - Subsequently Built.
  • Secondly from
... Read More
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Altnabreac »

J--M--B wrote:There was a petition in 1935 for a road to built across Rannoch Moor

From the BNA

Dundee Courier - Monday 11 March 1935
Image © D.C.Thomson & Co. Ltd. Image created courtesy of THE BRITISH LIBRARY BOARD.
[The proposed road to Tulloch would branch off from the existing road about one and a half miles from Rannoch Station and run north up through Currour and thence along the side of Loch Treig, following practically the line of the West Highland Railway, and join the Lochaber road just below the new dam at Loch Spean—a distance of between 12 and 14 miles.] Road Estimates Down Road estimates for 1935-36 were submitted, showing expenditure of £30,617, including £3700 for alignment of the Great North Road beyond Dunkeld. The total £1196 under the estimates for the current year. Mr R. Inglis said the Highland District was the only one in the county which had been able to effect a saving.
Dundee Courier - Wednesday 13 March 1935
Image © D.C.Thomson & Co. Ltd. Image created courtesy of THE BRITISH LIBRARY BOARD.
Capture.JPG

Coincidentally I think the route North from Corrour has been improved for access to the Lodge but of course nothing over to the A82.
Corrour Lodge access road has been much improved but runs east of Beinn na Lap rather than alongside Loch Treig as proposed above. There is not even any decent footpath access on either side of Loch Treig.

At the north end of Loch Treig it is steep and difficult ground and would have been a challenge to engineer a road without closing the railway.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

Altnabreac wrote: Corrour Lodge access road has been much improved but runs east of Beinn na Lap rather than alongside Loch Treig as proposed above. There is not even any decent footpath access on either side of Loch Treig.

At the north end of Loch Treig it is steep and difficult ground and would have been a challenge to engineer a road without closing the railway.
As Network Rail discovered when they had the derailment a few years ago!

Yes the Corrour road must have been improved, there has been discussion of going there on an annual outing. Going by boat across to Ardnish now suggested as well though apparently the landing is "interesting" though I can't see it being worse than when I went to Inch Garvie!
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Altnabreac »

J--M--B wrote:
Altnabreac wrote: Corrour Lodge access road has been much improved but runs east of Beinn na Lap rather than alongside Loch Treig as proposed above. There is not even any decent footpath access on either side of Loch Treig.

At the north end of Loch Treig it is steep and difficult ground and would have been a challenge to engineer a road without closing the railway.
As Network Rail discovered when they had the derailment a few years ago!

Yes the Corrour road must have been improved, there has been discussion of going there on an annual outing. Going by boat across to Ardnish now suggested as well though apparently the landing is "interesting" though I can't see it being worse than when I went to Inch Garvie!
I cycled it about 10 years ago and is very decent track, mainly fine rolled grit from memory. I was on a hybrid bike but my dad was riding a 1960s Claud Butler road bike with narrow tyres and didn't have any problems.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Glenn A »

The A82 is an odd one, it's a high quality D2 from the edge of Glasgow to Alexandria, then declines in quality as an S2. I wouldn't quite class it as Britain's worst road as it has some decent sections at the southern end, I think that distinction has to go to the A595 from Parton to Dalton in Furness, absolute rubbish and south of Egremont like something out of the dark ages where you have to go through the middle of a farm.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

Can someone buy Traffic Scotland a calendar, tried twice to inform them that 26th March is Sunday.
Variable Message Sign
Location A82S South of Inverness
Message MON 26TH MARCH 7PM-7AM A82S AT FORT AUGUSTUS CLOSED
I would have thought that any decent software would check the accuracy of any dates entered, I presume they might mean Sunday night but that is not what the message says.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by The Devil's Armpit »

They were painting the Cal. canal swing bridges a few days ago, I suspect that's the reason for the Ft. Augustus hold up.

Also a one or two traffic lights locations on loch Ness side, putting up wire netting on the exposed rock faces to prevent rock falls. It's worth considering how major an engineering job it was blasting out the A82 from the sheer slopes of Loch Ness in the 1930s. and the alignment ain't changed much at all.

http://www.atticpostcards.com/images/OG66/084pc2.jpg
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

The Devil's Armpit wrote:They were painting the Cal. canal swing bridges a few days ago, I suspect that's the reason for the Ft. Augustus hold up.

Also a one or two traffic lights locations on loch Ness side, putting up wire netting on the exposed rock faces to prevent rock falls. It's worth considering how major an engineering job it was blasting out the A82 from the sheer slopes of Loch Ness in the 1930s. and the alignment ain't changed much at all.

http://www.atticpostcards.com/images/OG66/084pc2.jpg
They have been working on the swing bridges for a few months, bit more than painting!

The canal reopens on Monday after its Winter closure so I don't think it is that. Of course they don't actually say where they are closing the road, which is very important to people planning journeys, though it might be on their website somewhere if I had the patience to spend a few hours searching it!
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

J--M--B wrote:Can someone buy Traffic Scotland a calendar, tried twice to inform them that 26th March is Sunday.
Variable Message Sign
Location A82S South of Inverness
Message MON 26TH MARCH 7PM-7AM A82S AT FORT AUGUSTUS CLOSED
I would have thought that any decent software would check the accuracy of any dates entered, I presume they might mean Sunday night but that is not what the message says.
They have now reverted to the mobile phone "safety" message, not sure if that means the road closures have been cancelled or postponed.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by OLD GIT »

Something that might be worth looking at in deciding this ,is at what part of the year most accidents occur.And for this it would be best to separate the road into it's bits- lets say - Glasgow - Tarbet / Tarbet - Crianlarich/ Crianlarich -Ballachulish/ Balachulish to Fort William
Lets leave out that part of the year when Glencoe is at it's most dangerous for the Crianlarich-Ballachulish section.
IMHO ,over most of my life driving this road ( about 50) and certainly the last 10 it's from Tarbet north, as the southerners drive north forgetting that there's more of a need to forget the scenery and more need to look out for other idiots. There's no need to sit in the slipstream of the car in front at all of 25MPH and block a local who knowns the road from overtaking. I've had it in Glencoe driving a decent car where cars close up to prevent an overtake and the leader is not exceeding 45 .
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

There are overnight closures on the A82 again in a few weeks time though on the Traffic Scotland website as far as I can see.

They have done there usual trick of starting off by saying it was going to be closed 19:00 - 07:00 then after all the protests changed to 21:00 - 07:00.

Tulla Cottage
Sunday 7th May to 22nd May except Fridays and Saturdays.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by OLD GIT »

I ALWAYS wonder on the opinions of southern folks on this road. It's a marvel of engineering. And it teaches young drivers HOW to drive. today- the limit is 70 - in my hey day - there was no limit, but at 70/80/90- we didn't crash off into a heap at the side of the road. We just drove the road to the LIMIT.
I drive this road ,as I have always have- "at the limit" -as it a road that expects that.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by Ruperts Trooper »

OLD GIT wrote:I ALWAYS wonder on the opinions of southern folks on this road. It's a marvel of engineering. And it teaches young drivers HOW to drive. today- the limit is 70 - in my hey day - there was no limit, but at 70/80/90- we didn't crash off into a heap at the side of the road. We just drove the road to the LIMIT.
I drive this road ,as I have always have- "at the limit" -as it a road that expects that.
Not speaking for myself, but many other "southerners" think it's a PITA and avoid the Loch Lomond stretch at all costs.

Personally - south of Crianlarich it's simply the route to/from the M74 - north of Crianlarich it's a nice road but too many places for camera vans and police patrols so not as enjoyable as it might be :wink:
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

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OLD GIT wrote:I ALWAYS wonder on the opinions of southern folks on this road. It's a marvel of engineering. And it teaches young drivers HOW to drive. today- the limit is 70 - in my hey day - there was no limit, but at 70/80/90- we didn't crash off into a heap at the side of the road. We just drove the road to the LIMIT.
I drive this road ,as I have always have- "at the limit" -as it a road that expects that.
The NSL on S2 is 60. And one of the reasons the NSL was introduced was that point in the sixties was when family cars started to be able to motorway cruise at 65.

You may not have crashed off the road, but plenty did. Which is why the A82 has that reputation.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by J--M--B »

OLD GIT wrote:I ALWAYS wonder on the opinions of southern folks on this road. It's a marvel of engineering. And it teaches young drivers HOW to drive. today- the limit is 70 - in my hey day - there was no limit, but at 70/80/90- we didn't crash off into a heap at the side of the road. We just drove the road to the LIMIT.
I drive this road ,as I have always have- "at the limit" -as it a road that expects that.
I think the only section with a 70 mph limit is just North of Dumbarton for a few miles.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by The Devil's Armpit »

OLD GIT wrote:I ALWAYS wonder on the opinions of southern folks on this road. It's a marvel of engineering. And it teaches young drivers HOW to drive. today- the limit is 70 - in my hey day - there was no limit, but at 70/80/90- we didn't crash off into a heap at the side of the road. We just drove the road to the LIMIT.
I drive this road ,as I have always have- "at the limit" -as it a road that expects that.
" drove the road to the limit ".

You'll have to explain that one.

Here's a tip, it's not complulsory to drive at 60 if the limit is 60.
It's the highest speed you can travel without beaking the law.

Drive at 55 and enjoy the scenery, chill out, it's not Le Mans.
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Re: A82 from Glasgow to Fort William be Britain's worst road?

Post by KeithW »

OLD GIT wrote:I ALWAYS wonder on the opinions of southern folks on this road. It's a marvel of engineering. And it teaches young drivers HOW to drive. today- the limit is 70 - in my hey day - there was no limit, but at 70/80/90- we didn't crash off into a heap at the side of the road. We just drove the road to the LIMIT.
I drive this road ,as I have always have- "at the limit" -as it a road that expects that.

There are two points to be made here.

1) In 1965 when the NSL came in most cars couldn't sustain speeds above 70 mph and with all drum brakes and no servo they couldn't stop reliably from high speed either. I have vivid memories of the terror induced by brake fade during an emergency stop from 65 mph on the A1 in 1970 when I was driving a Hillman Imp.

The 5 top selling cars that year and their top speeds were
Austin/Morris 1100 84 mph
Ford Cortina 1200 75 mph
850 Mini 75 mph
Ford Anglia 105E 74 mph
Vauxhall Victor 76 mph

2) A lot more cars crashed with fatal results in 1965 than do today. Drink driving was still the norm with roadside breath tests not coming into use until 1967 and most cars had no seat belts. Road fatalities were still around 7000 per annum in the mid 60's with far fewer vehicles on the road. On the suburban street where I lived only 3 of the 12 households had a car. The owner of the local pub/hotel really was the King of the Road in his 5 litre V8 Bristol 408. The cars parked on our street were an Austin A35 an Austin A40 and a Ford 100E Prefect
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