M8 Completion Approved

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wrinkly
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by wrinkly » Tue Dec 21, 2010 22:15

cb a1 wrote:
wrinkly wrote:Is 26 months a record for a decision on a scheme after receipt of the inquiry report?
As in "that's really fast" or "that's really slow"?
Really slow.

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by cb a1 » Tue Dec 21, 2010 23:04

wrinkly wrote:
cb a1 wrote:
wrinkly wrote:Is 26 months a record for a decision on a scheme after receipt of the inquiry report?
As in "that's really fast" or "that's really slow"?
Really slow.
Just checking ... 26 months for a government to do something could easily be interpreted in either way ;).

My gut feeling on this is:
a) there's nae money, so you don't want to risk having to start it in your current term in office.
b) whilst there's nae money, you announce it a few months before an election. This will either boost your popularity and get you re-elected or shift the problem to the ither party who will probably be promising to spend mair than you and will then be a millstane round their neck.
Education makes the wise slightly wiser, but it makes the fool vastly more dangerous. N. Taleb
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by cb a1 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 09:39

Now starting the parliamentary process.
Transport Scotland wrote:A8 upgrade starts parliamentary process
20 January 2011

A multi million scheme to upgrade the M8 between Glasgow and Edinburgh took a significant step forward today with the laying of Affirmative Orders in the Scottish Parliament.
Education makes the wise slightly wiser, but it makes the fool vastly more dangerous. N. Taleb
We tend to demand impossible standards of proof from our opponents but accept any old rubbish to support our beliefs.
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by a80 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 21:14

Not sure if this is really an update per se, but thought worth posting.

Scottish Government announces Capital Spending Plans
We will invest in new roads to target additional infrastructure where this addresses key challenges, including the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route, dualling of Balmedie to Tipperty, and completion of the M8 between Newhouse and Ballieston.
Timelines

Projected construction date therefore by March 2015... Aye right!!!
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by m80 » Wed Dec 07, 2011 22:19

a80 wrote:Not sure if this is really an update per se, but thought worth posting.

Scottish Government announces Capital Spending Plans
We will invest in new roads to target additional infrastructure where this addresses key challenges, including the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route, dualling of Balmedie to Tipperty, and completion of the M8 between Newhouse and Ballieston.
Timelines

Projected construction date therefore by March 2015... Aye right!!!
The table shows construction continuing into the period 2016 - 2019.

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a80
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by a80 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 20:13

m80 wrote:
a80 wrote:Not sure if this is really an update per se, but thought worth posting.

Scottish Government announces Capital Spending Plans
We will invest in new roads to target additional infrastructure where this addresses key challenges, including the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route, dualling of Balmedie to Tipperty, and completion of the M8 between Newhouse and Ballieston.
Timelines

Projected construction date therefore by March 2015... Aye right!!!
The table shows construction continuing into the period 2016 - 2019.
Geez that's ages away!! Need it now!! Harumph...
Everyone dies, but not everyone lives...

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FurryBoots
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by FurryBoots » Fri Dec 09, 2011 20:26

a80 wrote:Geez that's ages away!! Need it now!! Harumph...
To be fair, considering how long road projects generally take these days, that's not bad. It is a very long wait though. At least it's an upgrade to an existing road which generally gets far less resistance compared to a new road. If it was a new road you could add 5-10 years to that plan!

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by m80 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 18:36

New milestone reached in completing the Central Scotland motorway network
21 December 2011

A major motorway project, expected to deliver real benefits in the Central Belt, moved forward today with publication of Prior Information Notice.

The publication of this notice for the M8 M73 M74 Motorway Improvements Project signals the start of procurement. Transport Scotland will now be engaging with the construction industry, ahead of issuing the OJEU notice in the Spring, seeking expressions of interest from companies wishing to tender.

Transport Minister Keith Brown said:

“This is a key delivery milestone of this significant project that will complete the last remaining gap in the central Scotland motorway network. On completion, it will further boost the nation’s economy by improving connections between the commercial centres of Glasgow and Edinburgh and beyond.

“This latest investment by the Scottish Government follows on from the successful delivery earlier this year of the M74 and M80. Like these other projects, drivers can expect the M8 M73 M74 Motorway Improvements project to reduce congestion while enabling safer, quicker journeys.

“With benefits for drivers and businesses alike, this is a key enabler in helping promote sustainable economic growth by improving access to facilities and employment areas and reducing the time to transport goods and services.”

This ambitious project combines the upgrade of A8 Baillieston to Newhouse, completing the motorway between Glasgow and Edinburgh, work to improve Raith Interchange and the widening of key sections of the M8, M73 and M74.  Procuring all three together under a Non-Profit Distributing (NPD) contract will help deliver economies of scale and efficiencies for the public purse for the construction, maintenance and operation of these key infrastructure improvements.

A review of the cost estimate of the NPD will be completed in time for the issue of the OJEU in the Spring.

It is anticipated that construction will commence in late 2013 with completion by 2017.

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by m80 » Wed Dec 21, 2011 18:42

Lots of info including map showing which bits of the network will be managed by the company which wins the contract:
http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/roa ... state=full

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by jackal » Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:57

The Scotsman have a more sensible take on this: Vital Safety Upgrade for M8 is Delayed by Four Years.

This is a disgraceful delay, especially given (1) the extra funds recently released by Westminster for infrastructure investment in Scotland, (2) the extravagant road spending planned for the Highlands and Aberdeenshire, and (3) certain public transport schemes further south (hundreds of millions on aesthetic improvements to the Glasgow subway, for instance).

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by m80 » Thu Dec 22, 2011 18:54

jackal wrote:The Scotsman have a more sensible take on this: Vital Safety Upgrade for M8 is Delayed by Four Years.

This is a disgraceful delay, especially given (1) the extra funds recently released by Westminster for infrastructure investment in Scotland, (2) the extravagant road spending planned for the Highlands and Aberdeenshire, and (3) certain public transport schemes further south (hundreds of millions on aesthetic improvements to the Glasgow subway, for instance).
(1) Scottish Govt's capital budget has been cut by billions so its not surprising that some schemes have been delayed, though I'm not sure its as much as 4 years. The extra funds recently announced just reinstate a fraction of the amount being cut. Also, the extra funds are spread over 3 years and are back loaded so not much receivable up front. However, I'm sure they will use it to buy land for the scheme. 

(2) The road spending planned for the Highlands and Aberdeenshire doesn't begin until 2016 so I'm not clear why it's relevant.

(3) Improvements to the Glasgow subway will take place over 8 years and will be funded partly by borrowing by Glasgow City Council (SPT). Includes new rolling stock which is badly needed.

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by stu20_ml2 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:12

m80 wrote:
jackal wrote:The Scotsman have a more sensible take on this: Vital Safety Upgrade for M8 is Delayed by Four Years.

This is a disgraceful delay, especially given (1) the extra funds recently released by Westminster for infrastructure investment in Scotland, (2) the extravagant road spending planned for the Highlands and Aberdeenshire, and (3) certain public transport schemes further south (hundreds of millions on aesthetic improvements to the Glasgow subway, for instance).
(1) Scottish Govt's capital budget has been cut by billions so its not surprising that some schemes have been delayed, though I'm not sure its as much as 4 years. The extra funds recently announced just reinstate a fraction of the amount being cut. Also, the extra funds are spread over 3 years and are back loaded so not much receivable up front. However, I'm sure they will use it to buy land for the scheme. 

(2) The road spending planned for the Highlands and Aberdeenshire doesn't begin until 2016 so I'm not clear why it's relevant.

(3) Improvements to the Glasgow subway will take place over 8 years and will be funded partly by borrowing by Glasgow City Council (SPT). Includes new rolling stock which is badly needed.
I hate to nitpick here but this scheme technically isnt affected by the budget cuts/reduction from Westminster. It has basically been sitting on a shelf as design complete since 2008 - its the Scottish Government who have been sitting on it trying to decide how to pay for it. They decided in early 2010 to use NPD/PFI and yet still there has been no movement. The M77 or M80 DBFOs are good examples of projects that can move quickly when the government decides to put some momentum behind them.

IMO this project hasnt been delayed for four years - its been delayed for THIRTY years due to constant political interference. The first section from Baillieston to Drumpark was originally programmed by Strathclyde Region to start only months after Baillieston Interchange opened in April 1980. Thatcher killed that. Then the DBFO scheme that went to tender in 1995 only to be canned by Blair. Then this one that had its PLI report sat on for 20 months while the politicians dithered again about whether to combine it with other schemes or how to pay for it!

I'll have some analysis on this one on my site shortly.
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by m80 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 18:09

Stu, even though it's to be NPD it still needs a fair amount of up front capital to pay for land and advance works. I don't see how the cuts to the capital budget which started 18 months go can be dismissed as irrelevant. It's not as if they've been neglecting transport since they came to power 4 and a half years ago, their record speaks for itself. Their enthusiasm for building road/rail infrastructure shouldn't surprise as transport is one of the few GDP enhancing devolved powers they have. We probably won't agree about whether they've delayed unreasonably but the word on the grapevine is they are very keen to deliver this project and I'm sure they will. Something which previous administrations failed to do as you said. 

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by stu20_ml2 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 22:13

m80 wrote:Stu, even though it's to be NPD it still needs a fair amount of up front capital to pay for land and advance works. I don't see how the cuts to the capital budget which started 18 months go can be dismissed as irrelevant. It's not as if they've been neglecting transport since they came to power 4 and a half years ago, their record speaks for itself. Their enthusiasm for building road/rail infrastructure shouldn't surprise as transport is one of the few GDP enhancing devolved powers they have. We probably won't agree about whether they've delayed unreasonably but the word on the grapevine is they are very keen to deliver this project and I'm sure they will. Something which previous administrations failed to do as you said. 
M80- the required land was generally the same as that identified several years ago and has long since been paid for. I dont have any particular political affilitation but this Scottish Government has really dragged its heals with this one to the extent that it's not much further on than it was in 2008. Thus far all the Government done is advance projects taken forward by the previous administration and, to be honest, put most of them on the shelf due to the Forth Replacement Crossing - think A77 Symington of A75 Dumragit as examples. Its not good enough - their enthusiasm is no different from the other parties!!!!
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by m80 » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:34

Stu, it's all about money. If Forth Crossing eats up all the (falling) capital budget how do you expect them to pay for schemes like Dunragit and Symington which are too small for NPD? And the M8 still needs £30 million for land and probably more than that for advance works.

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by Hugo Nebula » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:25

cb a1 wrote:My gut feeling on this is:
a) there's nae money, so you don't want to risk having to start it in your current term in office.
b) whilst there's nae money, you announce it a few months before an election. This will either boost your popularity and get you re-elected or shift the problem to the ither party who will probably be promising to spend mair than you and will then be a millstane round their neck.
OT, but is the spelling deliberate? If so, is this an indication that an independant Scotland would have its own language? "A language is a dialect with an army".

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by michael769 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:39

Hugo Nebula wrote: If so, is this an indication that an independant Scotland would have its own language?
We already do - it's called Scots, and more people up here speak it than you (and indeed they) would think.
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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by Gav » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:43

The A77 at Symington has improved a lot since they set up the 50 limit. In fact Id be very suprised if the did anything with that road in the near to middle future. The road could be improved by some simple traffic calming around the junctions - speed humps and single lane chicanes anyone?

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by cb a1 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:47

Hugo Nebula wrote:
cb a1 wrote:My gut feeling on this is:
a) there's nae money, so you don't want to risk having to start it in your current term in office.
b) whilst there's nae money, you announce it a few months before an election. This will either boost your popularity and get you re-elected or shift the problem to the ither party who will probably be promising to spend mair than you and will then be a millstane round their neck.
OT, but is the spelling deliberate?
Aye, 'tis deliberate. Whilst I'm an Englishman born and bred, I've started to pick up the local lingo over the many years that I've lived up here.

To be honest, it's no' that much of a shift from the dialects I grew up with [Yorkshire from my father, Geordie from my mother, with Lancastrian and Cumbrian from where I lived up to the age of 23]. All of the words you've highlighted are used in at least one of the northern England dialects.
Education makes the wise slightly wiser, but it makes the fool vastly more dangerous. N. Taleb
We tend to demand impossible standards of proof from our opponents but accept any old rubbish to support our beliefs.
The human paradox that is common sense
The Backfire Effect

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Re: M8 Completion Approved

Post by Glen » Sat Dec 31, 2011 18:03

Hugo Nebula wrote: OT, but is the spelling deliberate? If so, is this an indication that an independant Scotland would have its own language? "A language is a dialect with an army".
Scotland already has three official languages, all of which appear on road signs to varying extents.

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