Sheriffhall Roundabout

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

smidget
Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 16:42

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by smidget »

Bryn666 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 20:53 Definitely a junction that needs resolving. Pity the A1 junction is built the wrong way around and funnels everyone in Edinburgh still.

What is it with Scottish bypasses being unable to just be normal functional roads?
Sorry - something ate my post. What I meant to say is that the bypass is totally dysfunctional and has been since they added the M8 and the link to the A1. It should be freeflow onto the M8 and A1 but I suspect both were 'descoped' and we now have what we have. :(
Last edited by smidget on Sun Sep 05, 2021 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7547
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by jackal »

Bryn666 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 20:53 Definitely a junction that needs resolving. Pity the A1 junction is built the wrong way around and funnels everyone in Edinburgh still.

What is it with Scottish bypasses being unable to just be normal functional roads?
Indeed, you could argue that none of the seven Scottish cities have a fully-grade separated bypass (the M8 and M74 being more of a throughpass).
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 17:29
Bryn666 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 20:53 Definitely a junction that needs resolving. Pity the A1 junction is built the wrong way around and funnels everyone in Edinburgh still.

What is it with Scottish bypasses being unable to just be normal functional roads?
Indeed, you could argue that none of the seven Scottish cities have a fully-grade separated bypass (the M8 and M74 being more of a throughpass).
Agreed, now given the strategic value of a bypass is to take everything out of the town it passes, slamming it all into half-baked junctions is a nonsense. Mind you, England does this very well too, so it's not unique to north of the border.

I mean, we have Switch Island and the south end of the A5300, and the less said about roads like the A1237 and A27 the better.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
djw1981
Member
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 00:07
Location: Falkirk

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by djw1981 »

jackal wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 17:29
Bryn666 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 20:53 Definitely a junction that needs resolving. Pity the A1 junction is built the wrong way around and funnels everyone in Edinburgh still.

What is it with Scottish bypasses being unable to just be normal functional roads?
Indeed, you could argue that none of the seven Scottish cities have a fully-grade separated bypass (the M8 and M74 being more of a throughpass).
M73?
User avatar
orudge
Site Manager
Posts: 8260
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 12:23
Location: Banchory
Contact:

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by orudge »

Stirling’s bypass is fully grade separated, with no at-grade junctions until the Keir roundabout, which is closer to Dunblane.

If the Longman grade separation doesn’t get binned, Inverness should also qualify.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7547
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by jackal »

orudge wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 07:48 Stirling’s bypass is fully grade separated, with no at-grade junctions until the Keir roundabout, which is closer to Dunblane.

If the Longman grade separation doesn’t get binned, Inverness should also qualify.
A bypass with a roundabout at the end is not fully grade separared.
djw1981 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 22:42 M73?
I think I might have argued the same at some point and been shot down!

I guess the counterargument is that a road that happens to go past the narrow side of Glasgow for a mile can't really call itself a Glasgow bypass. It's more a new route option than a genuine bypass. If you were to call it a bypass it'd be for the B757/B758 or in a broader sense A73, which aren't (and never have been) in Glasgow.
User avatar
orudge
Site Manager
Posts: 8260
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 12:23
Location: Banchory
Contact:

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by orudge »

jackal wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 08:35 A bypass with a roundabout at the end is not fully grade separared.
I suppose then the argument is over "where does the Stirling bypass end"? I'm still hopefully that one day we'll see the 'promise' of grade-separating the A9 roundabouts between Dunblane and Inverness fulfilled, though I'm not necessarily holding my breath, especially with the developments around Perth hemming in the current roundabouts.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7547
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by jackal »

orudge wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 09:10
jackal wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 08:35 A bypass with a roundabout at the end is not fully grade separared.
I suppose then the argument is over "where does the Stirling bypass end"?
Where could it possibly end other than Keir Roundabout?
User avatar
orudge
Site Manager
Posts: 8260
Joined: Sun May 27, 2007 12:23
Location: Banchory
Contact:

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by orudge »

Somewhere just north of the Forth, at which point it becomes the Bridge of Allan bypass, and then just a bypass of part of the A9. I don’t disagree with your general point though!
haggishunter
Member
Posts: 229
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2013 01:24

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by haggishunter »

jackal wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 17:15
orudge wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 09:10
jackal wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 08:35 A bypass with a roundabout at the end is not fully grade separared.
I suppose then the argument is over "where does the Stirling bypass end"?
Where could it possibly end other than Keir Roundabout?
The Keir Roundabout is at Dunblane. By your logic if the Keir roundabout was grade seoerated Stirling wouldn’t have a proper bypass because of at grade junctions north of Dunblane, and if these gaps were closed then Broxden !
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7547
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by jackal »

haggishunter wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 20:13
jackal wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 17:15
orudge wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 09:10
I suppose then the argument is over "where does the Stirling bypass end"?
Where could it possibly end other than Keir Roundabout?
The Keir Roundabout is at Dunblane. By your logic if the Keir roundabout was grade seoerated Stirling wouldn’t have a proper bypass because of at grade junctions north of Dunblane, and if these gaps were closed then Broxden !
Clearly the road up to Keir roundabout is an essential part of Stirling's bypass, as without it you'd have take the A9 through Stirling. Hence the bypass starts at Keir roundabout.

Your at-grade junctions north of Dunblane, by contrast, are completely irrelevant to bypassing Stirling. Grade separation or lack of it is not relevant.

Bypass is a functional definition, denoting a road that provides an alternative to an older road. It's not just any random bit of road near a town.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 20:38
haggishunter wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 20:13
jackal wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 17:15
Where could it possibly end other than Keir Roundabout?
The Keir Roundabout is at Dunblane. By your logic if the Keir roundabout was grade seoerated Stirling wouldn’t have a proper bypass because of at grade junctions north of Dunblane, and if these gaps were closed then Broxden !
Clearly the road up to Keir roundabout is an essential part of Stirling's bypass, as without it you'd have take the A9 through Stirling. Hence the bypass starts at Keir roundabout.

Your at-grade junctions north of Dunblane, by contrast, are completely irrelevant to bypassing Stirling. Grade separation or lack of it is not relevant.

Bypass is a functional definition, denoting a road that provides an alternative to an older road. It's not just any random bit of road near a town.
Yes, a bypass has to really be seen as a link between two key points on an existing road to, er, bypass what's between. Stirling is an odd example though because it was built in so many different stages (A84 to Dunblane opened first, bypassing Bridge of Allan) and never intersected the A9 at the south end, so you could argue it's more of an accidental bypass in that regard, only becoming viable when the gap between the M80 and M876 was plugged.

This slow progress of opening the M9 in various bits also explains why the A9 still exists south of Dunblane when it really doesn't need to.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
green light
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 20:13

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by green light »

I understand that a ministerial decision will be due at or before Autumn of this year!
User avatar
Gav
Member
Posts: 1968
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 17:44

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by Gav »

green light wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 19:57 I understand that a ministerial decision will be due at or before Autumn of this year!
Id say that it wont happen now. the money isnt there for it. be a while before they decide on any major infrastructure projects like this again.
clc
Member
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2016 22:34

Re: Sheriffhall Roundabout

Post by clc »

Gav wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 15:06
green light wrote: Thu Jul 20, 2023 19:57 I understand that a ministerial decision will be due at or before Autumn of this year!
Id say that it wont happen now. the money isnt there for it. be a while before they decide on any major infrastructure projects like this again.
It’s a City Deal project so may be legally committed?
Post Reply