The *orignal* route of the A38 through Burton upon Trent?

[Comstock]

I'm just looking at the 1930 quarter inch maps of Burton, and it shows the A38 following what is now High Street and Wetmore Road. This is not news to me- my dad can remember this route from his youth just after the war.

But what didn't strike me until I saw the map is how far off the 'natural' line of the road this is. It's quite a 'dogleg' to the East.

Did the A38 *originally* run a straighter course?

[Ritchie333]

The A38 is on the same alignment on the 1923 MOT Map. However, a more interesting question (and possibly what you mean) is if the coaching route that preceded this in the 19th century followed the Roman Road, and if so, when abouts did it change.

One obvious explanation would be due to hills or flood plains that would have been acceptable to Roman marching traffic, but not for stagecoaches. I can't see evidence of the former, but given the proximity of the Trent and the canal on either side, the latter's a possibility.

[Comstock]

However, a more interesting question (and possibly what you mean) is if the coaching route that preceded this in the 19th century followed the Roman Road, and if so, when abouts did it change.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm asking...

[PeterA5145]

On the old maps there isn't really any kind of road running further west, which suggests that the coaching route would have gone through Branston and then through Burton town centre. Routes don't tend to disappear entirely. By the time of the New Popular Edition the route seems to have been diverted away from Wetmore Road. There used to be a pub at the junction of Derby Road and Horninglow Road called the "Derby Turn", but StreetView suggests it has now disappeared

[Comstock]

There used to be a pub at the junction of Derby Road and Horninglow Road called the "Derby Turn", but StreetView suggests it has now disappeared

The Derby Turn has gone quite recently, certainly in the last five years.

It's now a Sainsburys, which is sad, although that part of town did need a supermarket- most of them are clustered in the town centre.....

[TheMainMan]

It certainly is a shame that the Derby Turn was knocked down. It used to be my local when I lived in that area for a short while in 1997. Well, that and the Hanbury Arms.

There is some very interesting information on the British History website about the original route of the A38;
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report ... =12331#s12

Does anyone have any photos of the old A38? The only one that I know of is on the agecarey website and is just south of Barton Under Needwood. What must the landscape have looked like around what is now The Clay Mills jct? You can kind of imagine what it must have looked like at the first Branston turn off with the original route now being a subway under the A38 but I would still love to have seen it.

Also the old route past Barton Under Needwood with the Vine pub sitting on the road, as it were before it detoured around Barton Turn. Before the flyover was built in the very late 70's the original road into Barton was the Barton Turn Rd. You can still see an old bit of 'track' still in a small field next to where the Barton Turn road now joins the B5016.

[Truvelo]

I assume the original road to the south ran through Branston. Wellington Road came later followed by the current A38.

[Comstock]

I assume the original road to the south ran through Branston. Wellington Road came later followed by the current A38.

No.

I think A38 was 1960s, Wellington Road was 1980s.

Not sure on the date, but I can definiately remember the wellington road opening.....


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Which still leaves my original question, maybe lost to the mists of time.

At what point between the Romans buggering off and the dawn of the motor car age did it cease to be possible to follow the direct line of Rykneld Street?

[Truvelo]

So the D2 bypass came before Wellington Road?

Just looked at the 7th Series mapping and indeed Wellington Road isn't present nor the D2 so even as late as the 60's the A38 ran through Branston. This explains why there used to be a 40mph limit between Burton and Branston because it was a former trunk road.

You learn something every day.....

[wrinkly]

The orders for the D2 A38 Burton bypass were made in 1962 so it probably started construction about 1963-4 and opened about 1965-6. It's shown on the 1968 OS Route Planning Map.

Edit: the oldest of my 3 copies of 1:50000 (later Landranger) sheet 128, revised 1975, major roads revised 1978, shows the bypass, but not Wellington Road or St Peter's Bridge.

[TheMainMan]

Which still leaves my original question, maybe lost to the mists of time.

At what point between the Romans buggering off and the dawn of the motor car age did it cease to be possible to follow the direct line of Rykneld Street?

Comstock, I have spent a long time trying to put together an answer for you but have come to the conclusion that the answer lies within the link that I have posted. Have another look at the Medieval Roads section.
It obviously does not spell it out in so many words but even so, I think it is there. I'll be interested to know what you think.

[aj444]

The orders for the D2 A38 Burton bypass were made in 1962 so it probably started construction about 1963-4 and opened about 1965-6. It's shown on the 1968 OS Route Planning Map.

Edit: the oldest of my 3 copies of 1:50000 (later Landranger) sheet 128, revised 1975, major roads revised 1978, shows the bypass, but not Wellington Road or St Peter's Bridge.

The A38 bypass sometime 1967,
St Peters Bridge 26/8/85 (I remember it well!)
Wellington St. Extension (now Wellington Rd) sometime after, but don't remember exactly when.

[Comstock]

The orders for the D2 A38 Burton bypass were made in 1962 so it probably started construction about 1963-4 and opened about 1965-6. It's shown on the 1968 OS Route Planning Map.

Edit: the oldest of my 3 copies of 1:50000 (later Landranger) sheet 128, revised 1975, major roads revised 1978, shows the bypass, but not Wellington Road or St Peter's Bridge.

The A38 bypass sometime 1967,
St Peters Bridge 26/8/85 (I remember it well!)
Wellington St. Extension (now Wellington Rd) sometime after, but don't remember exactly when.

Yeah I think Wellington Street extension was circa 1987 or so (a bit vague I know). I too remember St Peters bridge well- I was 11 years old and it looked so new and modern to me, after knowing the old one. Now there is talk of a third bridge.....

[aj444]

Some years ago there was a proposal to replace the roundabouts at the ends of St Peters Br with signal controlled junctions, they never got past the plan stage though.

[GeorgeEvans]

Before the bypass was built the A38 passed through Branston, under the Leicester line bridge and along Branston Road and Lichfield Street to by the market place. From here it continued along High Street to the Bargates (medieval barr gates).

It then turned left to share its course with the A50, Horninglow Street, to the Derby Turn where it turned onto the course of the Roman road to Clay Mills and over the River Dove into Derbyshire.

The route of the Roman road, Ryknild Steet, is lost in the mists of time but is followed by Clays Lane in Branston.

[GeorgeEvans]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm asking...

The former Roman road section from Branston to the junction with Moor Street (A5189) was abandoned before 1760. You could follow the line from the end of Clays Lane through the fields when I was a lad. NB Wellington Road [Extension] does not lie on the old road. Draw a line from south of Gallows Bridge to north of the Dove river crossing and you'll see what I mean.

[Truvelo]

This thread has come up just at the right time. A few days ago I found some plans for an earlier bypass at the local archives. The interesting about this bypass is how far to the west it goes. I think I may have an explanation for this. In the 1930s a lot of ribbon development took place on the B5017 which extends as far as the proposed bypass. Maybe the intention was for a massive expansion of Burton to infill the area within the bypass. The bypass plans are dated 1938 and orders were made at the same time. The outbreak of war a year later must therefore be the reason it wasn't built.

If events had changed and the bypass was built I wonder how it would have affected plans to dual the A38 a few decades later? Would this outer bypass had been dualled and GSJd and avoided the need for the throughpass which was eventually built.

[GeorgeEvans]

Did you know the A38 will be closed from the 15th between Branston and Toyota for resurfacing between Clay Mills and Toyota approach? Expect delays for a month.

The diversion is A50 west A515 south and B5017, through Burton to Branston GSJ. B5017? The planners must be insane. The people of Shobnall and Henhurst will be rioting. Traffic along the old A38 trunk route will be a nightmare.

I hope it's all nightwork.

[GeorgeEvans]

An April 1st gag. Surely. Totally unfeasible given the landscape.

[Truvelo]

The diversion is A50 west A515 south and B5017, through Burton to Branston GSJ. B5017? The planners must be insane. The people of Shobnall and Henhurst will be rioting. Traffic along the old A38 trunk route will be a nightmare.

Why not A511 Hatton/Tutbury. It's shorter too.

Alternatively A515 to Kings Bromley and A513 to Alrewas. A513 near Orgreave is incredibly fast and well aligned.