Forth Replacement Crossing

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Burns
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Burns »

As mentioned above, is there really that much non motorway traffic that'd end up going through South Queensferry? I ask curiously as I can't see the percentage of daily traffic along the A90 being any more than 1%, if that but the actual figures might tell a different story.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by lefthandedspanner »

Altnabreac wrote:Looking at the map though it does raise a wee trivia question. Is there a stretch of motorway in SABRE territory that is as inaccurately numbered as the M90 now is? J3 Halbeath being in reality the 8th (or 9th) junction from the M9 / M90 split:
M9 J1A
M90 J1
(unnumbered bus only exit to A9000)
M90 J1A
M90 J1B
M90 J1C
M90 J2
M90 J2A
M90 J3
On the M2 approaching Belfast, the numbers of the last few junctions are 5, 4, 2, 1, and 1B, then the next one is M3 junction 1A.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Bryn666 »

All of the major Scottish motorways, barring the M9, are now stuffed with dodgy junction numbering. It's great :lol:

It's what happens when you number motorway junctions 30 years before closing the gaps in the network.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by orudge »

I think the M77 may be the only Scottish motorway with more than 1 junction that has a simple, consecutive numbering scheme with no 'A' junctions!
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by GrahameCase »

Re south queensferry, theres talk of opening up the bus slip from Echline onto the A90 to all vehicles as the poor darlings aren’t travelling to the new junction south of the bridge to go into edinburgh
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Bryn666 »

GrahameCase wrote:Re south queensferry, theres talk of opening up the bus slip from Echline onto the A90 to all vehicles as the poor darlings aren’t travelling to the new junction south of the bridge to go into edinburgh
Wot, no bus lane camera and ker-ching? Seems another perfect opportunity for an "idiot tax" for the AA to be upset by.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by A9NWIL »

Phil wrote:
Duncan macknight wrote:Queensferry crossing to become a motorway on the 1st February. Hopefully this will mean a removal of that silly wee bit of the A90 and it too becoming motorway?
Nope

For that 'wee bit of the A90' to become a Motorway, you would also have to make the rest of the South Queensferry by-pass back to the B924 a Motorway too. This would inevitably push non-Motorway traffic onto the B924 through South Queesferry itself - which would not be popular with the locals. Indeed the most recent publications from Transport Scotland specifically mention this.
How much non-motorway traffic uses that section? Surely its just a few cyclists, moped riders and maybe some farm vehicles(unlikely)?
Learners can easily change drivers which they would need to do anyway if crossing the Queensferry crossing and learner motorcyclists would have to use the old bridge anyway, I believe they could use the bus slips from the A90 to the B800 anyway, so wouldnt be banned, cyclists could also use these.
Learners are soon to be allowed onto motorways anyway too.
So I dont get that argument it makes no sense.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by c2R »

Bryn666 wrote:All of the major Scottish motorways, barring the M9, are now stuffed with dodgy junction numbering. It's great :lol:

It's what happens when you number motorway junctions 30 years before closing the gaps in the network.

I know all the arguments for and against, but I think I'd have taken the opportunity to renumber the M90's junctions from scratch on this one!
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by wrinkly »

Bryn666 wrote:All of the major Scottish motorways, barring the M9, are now stuffed with dodgy junction numbering. It's great :lol:
Even the M9 has a 1A that could easily have been 2. And its marker posts count from J1 instead of from the M8.
It's what happens when you number motorway junctions 30 years before closing the gaps in the network.
And fail to take account of your own future plans.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Burns »

To be fair, until recently, there was never any plan to extend the M90 south of Rosyth so when it was built, Admiralty was always meant to be the start of the motorway.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Phil »

lotrjw wrote:
Phil wrote:
Duncan macknight wrote:Queensferry crossing to become a motorway on the 1st February. Hopefully this will mean a removal of that silly wee bit of the A90 and it too becoming motorway?
Nope

For that 'wee bit of the A90' to become a Motorway, you would also have to make the rest of the South Queensferry by-pass back to the B924 a Motorway too. This would inevitably push non-Motorway traffic onto the B924 through South Queesferry itself - which would not be popular with the locals. Indeed the most recent publications from Transport Scotland specifically mention this.
How much non-motorway traffic uses that section? Surely its just a few cyclists, moped riders and maybe some farm vehicles(unlikely)?
Learners can easily change drivers which they would need to do anyway if crossing the Queensferry crossing and learner motorcyclists would have to use the old bridge anyway, I believe they could use the bus slips from the A90 to the B800 anyway, so wouldnt be banned, cyclists could also use these.
Learners are soon to be allowed onto motorways anyway too.
So I dont get that argument it makes no sense.
Transport Scotland do not share your views (however logical they might be), so that 'we bit of the A90' will forever remain an all purpose road.

Incidentally with the new bridge becoming a motorway and the old road bridge being restricted to a public transport corridor only, Leaner drivers are now barred from crossing the forth! (until the rules change and they are permitted on motorways).

See https://www.theforthbridges.org/media/3 ... -pages.pdf for details - where they also reiterate Scottish Government policy of not increasing road space for general traffic across the Forth, regardless of what folk on here might want.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Big L »

Phil wrote:...Leaner drivers are now barred from crossing the forth...
...at Queensferry.
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Burns
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Burns »

Phil wrote: Incidentally with the new bridge becoming a motorway and the old road bridge being restricted to a public transport corridor only, Leaner drivers are now barred from crossing the forth! (until the rules change and they are permitted on motorways)...
Learner drivers are generally only driving to get experience. There's no need for them to cross either the Forth Road Bridge or the Queensferry Crossing.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Phil »

Burns wrote:
Phil wrote: Incidentally with the new bridge becoming a motorway and the old road bridge being restricted to a public transport corridor only, Leaner drivers are now barred from crossing the forth! (until the rules change and they are permitted on motorways)...
Learner drivers are generally only driving to get experience. There's no need for them to cross either the Forth Road Bridge or the Queensferry Crossing.
The point is that for the past 60 odd years learner drivers have been permitted to cross the road bridge at that point. Making the replacement bridge a motorway now denies them said access - it is no different to making the A1 into a motorway but completely neglecting to provide anything other than a footpath alongside it instead of a road.

Granted its not a big deal - but given the way the British legal system treats 'rights of way' (and effectively makes it very difficult to remove them) I'm surprised that it hasn't been possible to devise a way of accommodating learner drivers.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Ronnie »

Wasn't there a plan floated last year to lift the restriction on learners on motorways? Its a ridiculous, outdated and arbitrary ban anyway.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Phil »

Ronnie wrote:Wasn't there a plan floated last year to lift the restriction on learners on motorways? Its a ridiculous, outdated and arbitrary ban anyway.
There was - but I don't think its made much headway so far, mainly because HM Government have rather a lot of other more pressing demands on legislative time at the moment.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Big L »

Phil wrote:
Ronnie wrote:Wasn't there a plan floated last year to lift the restriction on learners on motorways? Its a ridiculous, outdated and arbitrary ban anyway.
There was - but I don't think its made much headway so far, mainly because HM Government have rather a lot of other more pressing demands on legislative time at the moment.
It's promised for 2018.
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by RossNicol »

orudge wrote:The junction numbering is just about as good as the M876 numbering that Chris refers to on his site - " Follow the junction numbers in order and you'll find yourself counting 5, 1, 2, 8, 7, 3!" :)
Since the completion of the M80, J5 has changed to J8, so the above sequence is now 8,1,2,8,7,3 - does this make it the only major motorway where following it from one end to another takes you through 2 different junctions with the same number? :lol:
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by SouthWest Philip »

RossNicol wrote:Since the completion of the M80, J5 has changed to J8, so the above sequence is now 8,1,2,8,7,3 - does this make it the only major motorway where following it from one end to another takes you through 2 different junctions with the same number? :lol:
On that basis you could argue that the M5 has two jnc 8's or M6 two jnc 19's...
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Re: Forth Replacement Crossing

Post by Was92now625 »

SouthWest Philip wrote:
RossNicol wrote:Since the completion of the M80, J5 has changed to J8, so the above sequence is now 8,1,2,8,7,3 - does this make it the only major motorway where following it from one end to another takes you through 2 different junctions with the same number? :lol:
On that basis you could argue that the M5 has two jnc 8's or M6 two jnc 19's...
But neither of the cases of Junction 8 interacting with the M876 is Junction 8 OF the M876. That has more of a chance of being unique.
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