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Halmyre wrote:I came over the bridge (northbound) earlier today and it was fairly free-flowing at ~40mph until you reached the bridge itself (after the on-slip from the A904) at which point the speed dropped to around 30mph or even less. Only when nearly across the bridge did the mass of traffic start to get back up to ~40mph. Similar patterns occur at rush hour. This suggests that people are deliberately driving slowly over the bridge, for whatever reason. They can't still be sight-seeing, surely?
It's the same southbound - there's congestion where the on-slip from Inverkeithing/Royth joins the bridge, but the congestion continues at ~20-30mph until the other end of the bridge, instead of quickly picking up to 40.
Baffling (and frustrating).
I believe this happens at Dartford Crossing too. Perhaps more with the tunnel than the bridge.
I remember the traffic slowing on the FRB even when the limit was 50 - people tended to drive at 40 over it and some of them would stick in lane 2 as well - very frustrating
GrahameCase wrote:I remember the traffic slowing on the FRB even when the limit was 50 - people tended to drive at 40 over it and some of them would stick in lane 2 as well - very frustrating
There should be a sign saying slower drivers use lane 1 only.
GrahameCase wrote:I remember the traffic slowing on the FRB even when the limit was 50 - people tended to drive at 40 over it and some of them would stick in lane 2 as well - very frustrating
There should be a sign saying slower drivers use lane 1 only.
I know it's normally considered a bad idea to have different speed limits per lane (unless you're in a "get in lane" situation), because it leads drivers to stay in what should be an overtaking lane so that they can go faster.
However, that argument doesn't seem to apply to minimum speed limits. Perhaps different minimum speed limits per lane would make sense in a situation like this (e.g. minimum 40 in lane 1, minimum 60 in lane 2, maximum 70 in any lane).
GrahameCase wrote:I remember the traffic slowing on the FRB even when the limit was 50 - people tended to drive at 40 over it and some of them would stick in lane 2 as well - very frustrating
There should be a sign saying slower drivers use lane 1 only.
I know it's normally considered a bad idea to have different speed limits per lane (unless you're in a "get in lane" situation), because it leads drivers to stay in what should be an overtaking lane so that they can go faster.
However, that argument doesn't seem to apply to minimum speed limits. Perhaps different minimum speed limits per lane would make sense in a situation like this (e.g. minimum 40 in lane 1, minimum 60 in lane 2, maximum 70 in any lane).
Or when the hard shoulder is converted to a running lane, 40MPH in lane 1, 60MPH in lane 2 and 70MPH in lane 3 (obviously with about 10% leeway due to speedometers over reading!)
TBH I think this should be the case on all motorways where there is a 70MPH limit, if its lower then the minimum gets dropped to be 10MPH lower than the signed speed on the gantry, unless its a lower speed to start with, eg at 60MPH max drop outer lanes to minimum 50MPH and keep lane 1 at 40MPH minimum, at 50MPH max all lanes become 40MPH minimum, then they all drop together from that point.
If there is congestion then the minimum can be ignored, but its to be hoped that congestion of the outer lanes is lessened by having minimum speeds that are higher in the outer lanes.
Bryn666 wrote:Given the clue is in the phrase 'Forth Replacement Crossing', the new bridge isn't about capacity, it's about preventing the old bridge falling into the sea through corrosion and fatigue. Plus there's nowhere for the traffic to go at either end so you'd have more congestion with four lanes each way.
I don't get the argument about "nowhere to go". Maybe that means the immediate approaches need to be widened. On the north side, there will be a fair chunk of traffic turning off for Dunfermline and the A921, and a load more coming off a junction later for the A92. Maybe it needs to be D3 through J1 as far as J2. On the south side, traffic turns off onto A90 and then spreads out onto M9, M8W and M8E leading to A8 and A720. There should be plenty of ways to disperse the traffic without it all funnelling into inadequate city streets, but the current approach of throttling the traffic means that everyone else gets stuck too.
There's plenty of capacity on either side of the river. There's the A90/M90 split at Scotstoun on the south side and on the north side, traffic leaves almost immediately at North Queensferry, Admiralty and Masterton. I've never experienced northbound delays beyond junction 2. As mentioned above, the issue is the volume of traffic trying to squeeze into the two available lanes at the bridge.
Altnabreac wrote:
The A985 is a pretty good Road from Kincardine to Cairneyhill. A Rosyth Bypass and maybe a bit of WS2+1 plus realignment around Crombie and you'd have a very viable Glasgow - South Fife route.
I fully agree. A few tweaks to the A985 would make it a great alternative to Queensferry. I stay in North Fife so I almost always approach Kincardine from the A977 so the Clackmannanshire Bridge is the obvious choice.
At the rate we're going, we'll soon have the Forth bridges traffic problem sorted !! Then on to the next job.........
Altnabreac wrote:
The A985 is a pretty good Road from Kincardine to Cairneyhill. A Rosyth Bypass and maybe a bit of WS2+1 plus realignment around Crombie and you'd have a very viable Glasgow - South Fife route.
I fully agree. A few tweaks to the A985 would make it a great alternative to Queensferry. I stay in North Fife so I almost always approach Kincardine from the A977 so the Clackmannanshire Bridge is the obvious choice.
At the rate we're going, we'll soon have the Forth bridges traffic problem sorted !! Then on to the next job.........
If only it was that simple! If the transport authorities worked off suggestions from this forum and they could build whatever road they wanted as elaborate as they wanted, then we really would have the country's transport problems sorted!
Altnabreac wrote:
The A985 is a pretty good Road from Kincardine to Cairneyhill. A Rosyth Bypass and maybe a bit of WS2+1 plus realignment around Crombie and you'd have a very viable Glasgow - South Fife route.
I fully agree. A few tweaks to the A985 would make it a great alternative to Queensferry. I stay in North Fife so I almost always approach Kincardine from the A977 so the Clackmannanshire Bridge is the obvious choice.
I would be giving serious consideration to re-trunking the A977 from Kinross to Gartarry roundabout.
It seems the wind shielding had a bit of a test this morning, in conditions which would have restricted the Forth Road Bridge, but the Queensferry Crossing remained open to all traffic.
orudge wrote:It seems the wind shielding had a bit of a test this morning, in conditions which would have restricted the Forth Road Bridge, but the Queensferry Crossing remained open to all traffic.
...if only you could actually reach the bridge through the congestion.
I've got a flight to catch out of Edinburgh airport a week on Thursday and I live in Fife... help.
Bryn666 wrote:
Given the clue is in the phrase 'Forth Replacement Crossing', the new bridge isn't about capacity, it's about preventing the old bridge falling into the sea through corrosion and fatigue. Plus there's nowhere for the traffic to go at either end so you'd have more congestion with four lanes each way.
I'm not sure that's really true southbound where you have the 2 lanes of the A90 to Edinburgh and the 2 lanes of the M90 heading down the the M9 - it seems to me that 3 lanes goes into 4 lanes quite nicely. enen allowing for a likely imbalance on the volumes of traffic heading down the A90 into Edinburgh.
Northbound I accept there is more of an issue - you'd probably have to widen the M90 up to Halbeath.
Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open Thomas Robert Dewar(1864-1930) Take the pledge
Burns wrote:I've got a flight to catch out of Edinburgh airport a week on Thursday and I live in Fife... help.
Set off early on Wednesday, book a hotel on the Edinburgh side and you should be sorted (well apart from the hell that is actually getting to the airport off the A8 ...*)
*If you're staying at say the Ratho Travelodge, you should be ok if you check out from there about 6 hours before departure time.
Education makes the wise slightly wiser, but it makes the fool vastly more dangerous. N. Taleb We tend to demand impossible standards of proof from our opponents but accept any old rubbish to support our beliefs. The human paradox that is common sense The Backfire Effect
orudge wrote:It seems the wind shielding had a bit of a test this morning, in conditions which would have restricted the Forth Road Bridge, but the Queensferry Crossing remained open to all traffic.
...if only you could actually reach the bridge through the congestion.
I've got a flight to catch out of Edinburgh airport a week on Thursday and I live in Fife... help.
I mean, I could leave at ridiculous o'clock so that I'm over the bridge for 6am (which I've done in the past) but I've got a five hour drive when I land to factor into the day. I don't want to be too tired when I take that on.
Burns wrote:...if only you could actually reach the bridge through the congestion.
I've got a flight to catch out of Edinburgh airport a week on Thursday and I live in Fife... help.
Train to Edinburgh Gateway?
You beat me to it - the train works. Last year we rented a flat overlooking the harbour at Pittenweem. We took the train from Cupar into Edinburgh. The journey was stress-free and we had a great view, from the Victorian railway bridge, of the road bridges - and a run straight into the city centre. Plus a great view of the end of the runway at EDI.
Mike Hindson-Evans. Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
When I lived in St Andrews and needed to get to the airport, I would either get the train to Inverkeithing and then get the 747 bus to the airport, or drive to the Ferrytoll park and ride and get the 747 from there. Now that Edinburgh Gateway station is open and the tram links from there to the airport, that might be a more reliable journey.
