What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

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haymansafc
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by haymansafc »

The simple answer is indeed, for the government to see sense, ignore the predictable NIMBYism and select one of the two options. Preferably the Aston Hill A494 upgrade as originally planned.

I do have to laugh at the "Surely there's a third option simply to leave things as they are" statement. Aye...because leaving things as they are really is working, isn't it?! :roll: Here's a dashcam clip I took of the evening rush hour bottleneck heading into Wales that's caused most days... (The video starts with me joining the A494 from Queensferry (B5129) and heading north/east)
PennyGlyn wrote:Hello all. Have lurked around these parts for a few years, however as a resident of Flint Mountain, this is a topic close to home!
Welcome to SABRE! I work in Sandycroft and one of my colleagues lives in Flint Mountain! It's a small world...!
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Moyceyy
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Moyceyy »

Oh my lord. I had no idea it was that bad, thats almost as bad as the M4 at Newport! There's no chance the Welsh government are stupid enough to give into the NIMBYs. (right?? :roll: )

No but seriously, something needs to be done quickly. All three of the major routes into England (a55,a494,m4) are all a massive joke.
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haymansafc
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by haymansafc »

Moyceyy wrote:Oh my lord. I had no idea it was that bad, thats almost as bad as the M4 at Newport! There's no chance the Welsh government are stupid enough to give into the NIMBYs. (right?? :roll: )

No but seriously, something needs to be done quickly. All three of the major routes into England (a55,a494,m4) are all a massive joke.
That clip I shared is pretty much 'standard fare' of the A494 on the approach to Ewloe/Aston Hill every Friday evening. It'll either be at a standstill or sluggish (i.e - below 30mph) right the way back to the start of the D3 section. I can only consider myself lucky that 'homeward bound' for me is in the other direction and I join, as you can see, the first junction after dropping down the hill... During morning rush hour, the traffic congesion is reversed. Heading into Wales is usually okay (60mph ish at 7:45am) barring the odd 'bad' morning, you can see how the two lane section heading for England is sluggish and heavy - before literally opening up and clearing when it becomes three lanes...

On other weekday nights, heading into Wales is slightly lighter to be fair. It usually starts to 'lighten up a bit' by the overhead blue bridge you see from 2:05-2:13.

During the summer months, what you see in the dashcam clip could be considered a "good day" during evening peak. I've regularly witnessed the slow moving and/or standstill traffic going right back to the A540 junction - which is where I turn off at the end of the clip.

Again, I hope Ewloe/Aston Hill is widened to three lanes. It's by far the neatest option in my opinion. No junction layout changes would be needed at Deeside and the environmentalists should be (marginally) happier that no new link road would be needed at Flint Mountain. I have no doubt there will be huge uproar that this widening scheme is on the cards again but I think it's time the Welsh Government started listening to those who actually have to use that road. Commuters and businesses who have to rely upon it, for example... The A494 is not Aston Hill's own private side-road. It's a major through route for industry, tourism and of course, not forgetting an important link to the ferries at Holyhead.
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jackal
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by jackal »

A larger scale plan from the exhibitions is below. It makes clear that, for the red route, Shotwick Lights will complete its transition to freeflow.

http://gov.wales/docs/det/publications/ ... bition.pdf
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by orudge »

The red route looks pretty good to me, let's hope they can get it built!

It's also nice to see freeflow at both ends for the main A55 -> A548 routes, instead of sticking a roundabout in or whatever!
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by PennyGlyn »

There's a Flint Mountain Community meeting tonight, with the new road as an agenda point (also, a discussion on reducing the speed limit on the A5119....) Sadly i'm not able to attend but no doubt i'll be able to get an overview of what was discussed from a neighbour.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by fras »

So no doubt we might expect construction to start in 2037 ! (optimistic view)
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by jackal »

orudge wrote:The red route looks pretty good to me, let's hope they can get it built!

It's also nice to see freeflow at both ends for the main A55 -> A548 routes, instead of sticking a roundabout in or whatever!
Yes, a rare occasion where a second completely grade-separated route is a viable option, providing redundancy as well as capacity.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by orudge »

You'll really have 3 fully grade separated alternative routes from the M56: A494, A548 and M53-A55, albeit the last one is about 5 miles longer.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by jackal »

I suppose you could say two and a half - two of them use the same bit of A55 to get to Northop.
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haymansafc
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by haymansafc »

An interesting set of plans there...!

The Red Route (Flint Mountain) does look decent overall and reasonably similar to what I remember what was originally planned back in the late 90's when the 'new' bridge was opened. I do have two concerns though with this proposed route and it's mainly concerning it's eastern end:

1) Judging from the plans, the Northbound/England-bound Traffic coming from the existing route/Queensferry and from the east end of Deeside industrial estate will merge together and then all have to join onto the far eastern end of the new alignment on the same sliproad (utilising what's currently used as the on-slip from the A548/industrial Estate after Shotwick Lights. As things stand, the slip road isn't really long enough to sustain what currently uses it at peak periods. By adding Queensferry traffic to this, judging from the proposals, is going to make one heck of a busy on-slip… It would be wise if they were to extend this on-slip. Possibly by removing the existing layby (just to the east of the on-slip) whilst they're at it. I appreciate traffic levels will be less that the A55 will just run straight onto the new alignment but I think planners are underestimating the amount of traffic that will still be uses the existing route - from Mold, Queensferry, Shotton, Ewloe and Sandycroft. All that on what was once a dual carriageway, now onto a single sliproad (if I've read the plans correctly).

2) There doesn't appear to be an eastbound on-slip onto the new alignment from Parkway Junction to the west of Shotwick Lights – just a westbound off-slip. It seems traffic is now being re-routed further west to the Tenth Avenue junction before they can join – effectively making traffic double-back on itself. I know it's not a huge problem on the grand scale of things and I understand why it's been done like this (Parkway roundabout is very close to Shotwick), but it's just adding inconvenience. We saw this when the A5117 was upgraded to the A494, where Ellesmere Port traffic no longer has direct access onto the D2 from the old M56 western terminus at Dunkirk Roundabout. It's now diverted to the A540 and onto the former 'Wheelspin Roundabout') before they can join.

On the upside to the Red Route, it does make Shotwick completely freeflow - which is something that still, even after the upgrade to the junction here, isn't the case. As it stands, A550 traffic still has to meet a set of traffic lights - as does traffic joining on from Deeside Industrial Estate. It doesn't look as though that would change with the Blue Route option.

Another upside to the Red Route is something that only really locals are aware of... If traffic backs up along the A550 from Two Mills (which does happen - quite regularly), those who know the area will divert up Woodbank Lane to the A540. This in turn causes long queues on a narrow country lane, all looking to turn left onto the A540 to rejoin the A550 at Two Mills. A lot of motorists take risks by pulling out on the busy A540 here and there's been plenty of occasions where I've seen cars having to jam on the brakes where Woodbank lane traffic has pulled out on vehicles doing 50mph. Myself included. It looks like the new sliproad from the existing route will not allow this to continue as the new sliproad will pass it. Bad news for traffic wanting to head for Two Mills (and probably me who turns off at the next junction - A540 - where no doubt many will divert to) but probably safer in the long run. I doubt too much standing traffic will divert up Shotwick Lane as it's almost all S1. Woodbank Lane is mostly WS1 with reasonably wide soft verges for good parts of it's length.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by jackal »

Re: your first point, I don't think the volume of traffic using that slip would increase much if at all. At present it is used by A548 traffic, which will now just go through on the mainline, including industrial traffic from the Tenth Ave and Weighbridge Road GSJs. It's true that the slip will gain local traffic from the A494 corridor, but I doubt this significantly outweighs the 'lost' A548/industrial traffic.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by orudge »

Spotted this on the BBC News site - Flintshire Council think both the red and the blue options should be built! Or at least, they're backing the red route, but think that a crawler lane should be added to the A55 towards Halkyn (I wonder if they would also want one on the A494?) along with "changes made to the Ewloe interchange".

Of course, this probably means fairly little in terms of what the WAG will actually do, but it would make sense to make some improvements to the current A494/A55 as well as constructing a new offline route to take through traffic.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Owain »

orudge wrote:Spotted this on the BBC News site - Flintshire Council think both the red and the blue options should be built! Or at least, they're backing the red route, but think that a crawler lane should be added to the A55 towards Halkyn (I wonder if they would also want one on the A494?) along with "changes made to the Ewloe interchange".

Of course, this probably means fairly little in terms of what the WAG will actually do, but it would make sense to make some improvements to the current A494/A55 as well as constructing a new offline route to take through traffic.
Whichever route they go for, it should be M56 until the point at which it meets the A55.

Or, the A55 should be diverted to take this route, and the ring road south of Chester should become something else.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by TimM3-A55 »

Owain wrote:
orudge wrote:Spotted this on the BBC News site - Flintshire Council think both the red and the blue options should be built! Or at least, they're backing the red route, but think that a crawler lane should be added to the A55 towards Halkyn (I wonder if they would also want one on the A494?) along with "changes made to the Ewloe interchange".

Of course, this probably means fairly little in terms of what the WAG will actually do, but it would make sense to make some improvements to the current A494/A55 as well as constructing a new offline route to take through traffic.
Whichever route they go for, it should be M56 until the point at which it meets the A55.
Agree, the upgraded section on the welsh side is already motorway stranded and the section on the English side is short and only missing hard shoulders. If the new section was built to motorway standard there's no reason the M56 could be extended to the A55 junction, but then there's also numerous sections of expressway that could be motorway and aren't (A2 from the M25 to M2, and A27 from the M27 to A3(M) for example).

If it stayed an A road the A56 number always looked to me with the A56 renumbered as something like A5600, I don't know the area well enough to know where the A56 currently goes though. I wounder why the Chester A55 was numbed as such, possibly when the Chester section of the A55 was built (early 90s?) it was assumed the M56 would be extended to the A55.

Of course there's a good chance if the proposed upgraded 10 years hadn't been so needlessly overblown it would of been built already.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Robert Kilcoyne »

TimM3-A55 wrote: Agree, the upgraded section on the welsh side is already motorway stranded and the section on the English side is short and only missing hard shoulders. If the new section was built to motorway standard there's no reason the M56 could be extended to the A55 junction, but then there's also numerous sections of expressway that could be motorway and aren't (A2 from the M25 to M2, and A27 from the M27 to A3(M) for example).

If it stayed an A road the A56 number always looked to me with the A56 renumbered as something like A5600, I don't know the area well enough to know where the A56 currently goes though. I wounder why the Chester A55 was numbed as such, possibly when the Chester section of the A55 was built (early 90s?) it was assumed the M56 would be extended to the A55.

Of course there's a good chance if the proposed upgraded 10 years hadn't been so needlessly overblown it would of been built already.
Although there is around two miles of D4 A494 which would certainly be motorway standard before the abrupt loss of two lanes at the Dee Bridge, the proposed new route for the M56 - Flintshire Bridge - A55 link would include very little of the D4 A494.

The A494 between Shotwick and Ewloe follows a route which could have been envisaged for the M53. Traffic on the southbound M53 has to negotiate a fairly tight bend approaching Junction 5 (A41) and you can see evidence of a proposed mainline which would have continued southwards, probably shadowing the A550, at least until the Welsh border. It also explains the very sharp bend by motorway standards on the Liverpool bound carriageway just after Junction 5. The current M53 southeast of Junction 5 was initially numbered M531 and may have kept that number if the M53 had been extended at least to Shotwick.

The A55 Chester Southerly bypass is actually quite old; it was completed in 1976 to link in with the extension of the M53 through Ellesmere Port. Until the Hawarden bypass and the Ewloe Interchange were built, the A55 Chester bypass was dual carriageway only for a very short length west of the Welsh border before reverting to single carriageway through the village of Broughton. The dual carriageway section of A55 bypassing Broughton and Hawarden, and the Ewloe Interchange itself, were built in the mid-1980's.

The A56 is really only a route for local traffic between the M56 Junction 11 southwest of Warrington and Chester itself. It is only primary for a very short length in a multiplex with the A533 on the edge of Runcorn. Otherwise it is only used by traffic for Frodsham, Helsby and Mickle Trafford. As has happened with other routes where a nearby motorway has superseded them (e.g. A5, A34, A41), the A56 could be downgraded west of M56 Junction 11 until the M56 ends, and in effect multiplex with the M56, then take over the A494 route to Shotwick and the new route over the Flintshire Bridge to meet the A55 at Halkyn. The current A56 from Preston Brook (M56 Junction 11) to Chester could become A5600.

The A55 route should probably remain as it is, with it terminating end on with the M53 east of Chester.
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Bryn666 »

The D4 to Aston Hill is a total waste then!
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by Truvelo »

Bryn666 wrote:The D4 to Aston Hill is a total waste then!
You could D3 it to the next junction but there's the problem of having to replace the bridge over the river which probably rules it out. The lane drop will still be there when I have grey hair :@
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Re: What now for the A494 Expressway "mess"???

Post by orudge »

The bridge replacement is a separate project which is mentioned in that press release. Hopefully they would at least make it D3.
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