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Has anyone driven through this yet? They have removed the temporary 4 way traffic lights that were causing the queues but when I got to the Fountain Place junction, the traffic lights have gone only to be replaced by a double "roundabout-esque" "roundals" (basically studs in the new block paving they have relaid the whole junction in".
Whilst it might look nice at the moment and I have to say there were little delays getting through, there seems to be a lot of hesitation and confusion as to who had the right of way, horns blasting and block paving? How long will that last?
In addition, it's now "shared space" where vehicles, bikes and pedestrians apparently have equal right of way
Seems a little bizzare to have done this to such a busy junction on an important route.
There's a similar thing in Holmes Chapel, where the A536/A50/A54 meet up in the centre of the town, except there its 2 mini roundabouts ...which just causes so much confusion about right of way.
bikingbunny wrote:There's a similar thing in Holmes Chapel, where the A536/A50/A54 meet up in the centre of the town, except there its 2 mini roundabouts ...which just causes so much confusion about right of way.
I know that one and it's a breeze compared to this one - the "roundels" on this one aren't painted. I only noticed them because of what seems like metal studs in the road marking them (can't be positive, I was too busy watching other cars coming towards me!). The difference in paving colour is nowhere near as obvious as in the images.
I like that the video says something like "civility between pedestrians and vehicles can happen - even in London!" - and the film accompanying it is of Seven Dials in Covent Garden - a place where seven streets meet at a circular junction around a monument and, er, normal priority rules apply. You'd think they could have found some footage of another shared space to illustrate their point!
Here it is: effectively a roundabout. Yes, traffic moves slowly; yes, pedestrians can walk through the junction as they wish; yes it has fancy paving. But this is at the middle of a group of narrow city streets with zero through traffic - it's only really used by delivery vans and taxis. It is in no way comparable to the junction that has been converted in Poynton.
Shared spaces are fine but I would question whether they are a good idea at a busy junction of two A-roads.
eastmcr wrote:I only noticed them because of what seems like metal studs in the road marking them (can't be positive, I was too busy watching other cars coming towards me!)
No idea what this junction is like in real life, but that comment is surely the point and it shows the scheme is working as intended. The whole idea of these spaces is to make you feel unsafe and unsure how to proceed, so you watch what's happening around you and thread your way through taking a lot of care, as opposed to charging through because you have the right of way. It is supposed to feel dangerous, that's the whole point.
The nearest we have to anythong like this in Norwich is St Stephens Street, one of the main shopping streets. Originally it was a D2, very traffic chocked with loads of buses. There was a central barrier to stop people crossing and lots of barriers to keep peds and traffic seperate, it had the worst accident rate in the city. It is now a wide S2 with bus stops and ramped ped crossing zones with no priority, all the fences have gone and peole wander across the crossing areas and traffic fits in best it can. The accident rate is now far lower. Thing is driving down ther enow is obviously something to be done with care.
Derek wrote:No idea what this junction is like in real life, but that comment is surely the point and it shows the scheme is working as intended. The whole idea of these spaces is to make you feel unsafe and unsure how to proceed, so you watch what's happening around you and thread your way through taking a lot of care, as opposed to charging through because you have the right of way. It is supposed to feel dangerous, that's the whole point.
Yes, but what's appropriate in a residential neighbourhood isn't appropriate on a busy primary A-road. Extending the same logic we would get rid of GSJs in favour of shared-space junctions. Judging by previous threads I am actually more sympathetic than some on here to this sort of thing, but this isn't the right place for it. If the bypass is ever constructed it might make more sense.
With this one, I would predict that either;
(a) it ends up producing such humungous queues that there are demands for a return to signalisation, or
(b) it becomes colonised by the dominant flow, making it very difficult for traffic to emerge from the side roads and pedestrians to cross
Most of the users here are regular travellers who will quickly become more assertive and less forgiving in their use of the junction.
“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A. Heinlein
Bryn666 wrote:I think this was meant to happen when the bypass was built but someone jumped the gun, to be honest.
Yes, but the bypass doesn't really bypass the junction does it?
It just creates a new route west to the A555/Airport. The vast majority of the traffic using the A523 is heading north/south to/from Stockport and Manchester - which the bypass will do little to help.
eastmcr wrote:It just creates a new route west to the A555/Airport. The vast majority of the traffic using the A523 is heading north/south to/from Stockport and Manchester - which the bypass will do little to help.
The original plans also included an A523 western bypass of Poynton, linking up with the east-west A555. I don't know whether that is included in the recent revival of the scheme - but it would IMV be daft not to.
“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A. Heinlein
eastmcr wrote:It just creates a new route west to the A555/Airport. The vast majority of the traffic using the A523 is heading north/south to/from Stockport and Manchester - which the bypass will do little to help.
The original plans also included an A523 western bypass of Poynton, linking up with the east-west A555. I don't know whether that is included in the recent revival of the scheme - but it would IMV be daft not to.
Unfortunately it would seem not - the latest plans show it linking the A6 to the A555 crossing the A523 north of Poynton near the Fiveways junction.
bob@romiley1 wrote:The new set up at Poynton (A523) has nothing to do with the A555
Though surely, as has been mentioned, the now-seemingly-missing Poynton bypass has a lot of relevance to this topic.
Will the A555(Poynton B/pass) ever be built? OK the Govt is making noises re the Airport Section but there is no activity on the ground. A proper bypass of Poynton would start at M60 J25.
The A523( thro' Poynton) is almost finished and will be used for many years.
bob@romiley1 wrote:The A523( thro' Poynton) is almost finished and will be used for many years.
unless they build the A523 bypass around Poynton that the original SEMMMS scheme had, which if you read the last 10 or so posts, you'll see that that is what we're discussing.
I've never seen the A555 scheme considered as a Poynton bypass, let alone called that.
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