Severn Bridge tolls damaging economy

[ANiceEnglishman]

Will the Severn toll booths be properly removed or will there be a messy situation like wirh border checkpoints in Europe?

Which borders are you referring to as I most of the borders I've crossed over there have had anything on the mainline removed. Parking areas etc. do seem to have been retained though.

The A22/A17 north of Lille is one.

It might be wise to retain the booths in case Wales becomes independent from the UK and joins the EU and they are required for border checks

[AAndy]

Looking at the bridge over the M48 tools, it looks like the existing bridge is a free-standing structure, with the toll canopy hung off it. If so, the canopy and booths could probably be removed and the bridge not require replacing.

There are actually four piers to the bridge. When the eastbound toll booths were removed (well, some were, the rest of the eastbound toll booths were converted to westbound, and the central reservation moved over), there appeared to be no structural changes to the bridge and the eastbound two lanes and an off slip passed between two of the piers (as well as the existing foot/cycle path). I should think it would be easy to do similar westbound.

Yes.... but it must be an optical illusion, the bridge looks very low!

m48 severn bridge toll plaza july 2018 b by Dskies, on Flickr

m48 severn bridge toll plaza july 2018 by Dskies, on Flickr

[Bryn666]

Looking at the bridge again with the images provided and on GSV it seems less work than I thought, although it will be interesting to see how HE deal with all the dead carriageway space. Just stick a barrier up and leave it?

[SteveA30]

A Sabre Meeting Place. All anoraks to be checked in on entry.

[M4 Cardiff]

Given it is at the end of an on-slip, and before the bridge, it would be ideal for a works unit or holding area for loads needing an escort.

Not sure how the far larger M4 plaza could be re-used. Probably a bit too small/short to put up a part length barrier and turn it into a small westbound-only service area.

However it will probably find use as a works compound / store of some description when/if the Newport southern bypass ever happens, and likely removed afterwards as part of the works.

[KeithW]

I drove over the Severn Bridge today and one think I did notice is how worn the road surface is. It was quite rough and had the appearance of a patchwork quilt. Aust services was a delight to use despite the limited facilities there were so few cars there on summer Friday that I could practically park outside the entrance. In fact there seemed to be more HGV's parked up than cars.

[Pendlemac]

Will the Severn toll booths be properly removed or will there be a messy situation like wirh border checkpoints in Europe?

Which borders are you referring to as I most of the borders I've crossed over there have had anything on the mainline removed. Parking areas etc. do seem to have been retained though.

The A22/A17 north of Lille is one.

We went Belgium - France and vice-versa last year but used a rural crossing much further east. ( Went Hull - Zeebrugge not Dover - Calais )

A quick scan of Google maps has shown me what you are talking about and it looks to be the temporary arrangements put in place during the state of emergency that was called in France following the terror attacks.

Given the complex of pre-Schengen buildings that remained until around 2012, trying to do the job with what is basically a garden shed was never going to hack it.

[DB617]

I drove over the Severn Bridge today and one think I did notice is how worn the road surface is. It was quite rough and had the appearance of a patchwork quilt. Aust services was a delight to use despite the limited facilities there were so few cars there on summer Friday that I could practically park outside the entrance. In fact there seemed to be more HGV's parked up than cars.

I was wondering if the closure a few nights ago was to strip and resurface the road, both the main and Wye bridge are completely shagged and well below motorway standards. I wonder what's stopping them resurfacing the same way they have been all along the M4.

[M4 Cardiff]

Could there be weight considerations? Possibly a different material or thinner makeup.

[DB617]

Yes, I was thinking this. It's got to be to do with the fact the surface is on a suspension bridge, which suggests weight. But I also think the many, many patches are probably weighing as much as any road surface now.

[Big L]

A suspension bridge probably demands a more flexible surface material than other types of bridge.

[Berk]

I watched that Timeshift docs on BBC4 about the building of the Severn Bridge. Didn’t it say that the deck had to be laid completely by hand, because the machines to do so hadn’t been invented yet??

Wonder if that applied to the surface too.

[Pendlemac]

I watched that Timeshift docs on BBC4 about the building of the Severn Bridge. Didn’t it say that the deck had to be laid completely by hand, because the machines to do so hadn’t been invented yet??

Wonder if that applied to the surface too.

Pretty sure that would be a comment about the surface and not the actual deck.

Deck is pre-fabricated steel sections and I believe that on top of the steel deck it's only a thin wearing course, so that probably did have to be done by blokes spreading it out by hand rather than a paving machine.

DB617, as the surface layer is so thin don't they strip anywhere that needs a patch back to the steel first? So, unlike normal roads, you don't get a builduo of layers.

[Nwallace]

Looking at the bridge again with the images provided and on GSV it seems less work than I thought, although it will be interesting to see how HE deal with all the dead carriageway space. Just stick a barrier up and leave it?

The dead space solution on the forth and tay bridges was quite simple, lots of white hatchings.
If you look at the design of the new TRB ramps you'll see there's room to reinstate tolls in both directions; IIRC the new ramps were designed before the tolls were removed and not redesigned. The upshot is that the police have somewhere to sit with their speed guns now...

[KeithW]

Deck is pre-fabricated steel sections and I believe that on top of the steel deck it's only a thin wearing course, so that probably did have to be done by blokes spreading it out by hand rather than a paving machine.

DB617, as the surface layer is so thin don't they strip anywhere that needs a patch back to the steel first? So, unlike normal roads, you don't get a builduo of layers.

The deck was resurfaced during the 1980's strengthening. Here is what it is described as

The Severn Bridge crossing was strengthened and resurfaced in the late 1980s as the volume and weight of the daily traffic grew. The work included the strengthening of the Severn Bridge towers and deck, an extension to the existing Wye Bridge towers and the replacement of the original single stays with two stays. The open structure of the new stays was designed to facilitate maintenance. Most of the strengthening work was inside the deck box and towers and so is not visible. The surfacing is a 35 mm (1 3⁄8 in) thick layer of mastic asphalt over an acrylic waterproofing membrane.

[Berk]

Knowing what I do now, about the strength, and thickness of road surfaces, and how they can be affected by weather, it’s a wonder our roads aren’t permanently cracked, and rutted. They’re so thin, they’re like pieces of toast!!

Little wonder they’re shot to pieces by a few frosts and snow. And can be washed away by a single large downpour.

[jedikiah]

M48 bridge closed westbound - no staff available for the toll booths: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-g ... e-45069260

[Bendo]

Surely they could just put the barriers up and not cause such a huge inconvenience to people. I don't see what the safety issue could be.

[Big L]

Surely they could just put the barriers up and not cause such a huge inconvenience to people. I don't see what the safety issue could be.

It would be interesting to see how many people would pay to use the M4 if the M48 were free for a day.

[M4 Cardiff]

Surely they could just put the barriers up and not cause such a huge inconvenience to people. I don't see what the safety issue could be.

I guess there's a legal problem with that, just like if you were at a shop and a power cut happens while you are in there, they won't just let you walk out with the shopping on the basis that they are unable to take the payment temporarily.

However I do hope that they get a massive ******* from Highways England and the Welsh equivalent.