A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour

[Rob_A1010]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-16441094

I thought about doing this in 1990, but didn't cos I lived in Essex and had only just learned to drive. If I get a second chance I might consider it, though!

Sadly, I wonder if the H&S brigade will scupper it?

Rob

[Rob_A1010]

Also, I wonder if this is the longest detour in the UK. Are there any other locations where a road closure forces a longer diversion (excluding by water)?

Rob

[Bryn666]

I think there is no other choice - 140 mile diversions will devastate the local economy if not dealt with.

[WHBM]

About 60 pupils in Wester Ross are to take a train to school if their normal route by road continues to be at risk of landlsides.

The youngsters from the Lochcarron and Applecross areas will not arrive at Plockton High School until after 11:16 because of the train timetable.

Time was when it would be no problem to arrange an extra school train for these 60 pupils; railway staff used to pride themselves on doing this sort of thing, notwithstanding that the railway received way less public subsidy then than they do now.

Nowadays, even though there's no train about on the line here for hours at school starting time, it's "couldn't care less".

[Glen]

I think there is no other choice - 140 mile diversions will devastate the local economy if not dealt with.

I think just now it isn't know how long the road will be need to closed for, so contingency plans are dependant on knowing that.
Arrangements have been made to get pupils to school by train when the schools are back on Monday with adjustments to the school day made for those pupils. Plans are also being considered for a passenger or car ferry.

Much of the traffic using the A890 is using it as a through route from Skye towards Inverness, so the alternatives route isn't a huge inconvenience for that traffic.

The closure is cutting two communities off from each other - although bear in mind there was no road there until the 1960s - but neither end is being cut off from the outside world as most freight going to the Lochcarron area (and people there going to Inverness/Dingwall for shopping) would be via Achnasheen anyway.

[Glen]

About 60 pupils in Wester Ross are to take a train to school if their normal route by road continues to be at risk of landlsides.

The youngsters from the Lochcarron and Applecross areas will not arrive at Plockton High School until after 11:16 because of the train timetable.

Time was when it would be no problem to arrange an extra school train for these 60 pupils; railway staff used to pride themselves on doing this sort of thing, notwithstanding that the railway received way less public subsidy then than they do now.

Nowadays, even though there's no train about on the line here for hours at school starting time, it's "couldn't care less".

But if the council suggest running an earlier train First Scotrail's answer will be "if you pay us the full running costs". So it will be cheaper to keep the school open for two hours longer.

Suggestions for a passenger ferry from North Strome to Plockton are being made, so that would solve the problem of getting pupils there on time - no doubt it's cheaper to hire a boat than a train.

[Rob_A1010]

Nowadays, even though there's no train about on the line here for hours at school starting time, it's "couldn't care less".

Up until around 1990 I used to go to Kyle by rail 2-3 times a year. The first train from Inverness left around 0630 (connecting out of the internal sleeper from Glasgow / Edinburgh, now just a sad memory), so arriving in Kyle around 0900-ish.

Things seem to have got a lot worse since then

Rob

[Burns]

Will we see another avalanche shelter built if this is going to continue being an issue for this section of road? I believe there were once plans to reroute the A890 further south into the hills behind but looking at the map, I honestly can't a logical route that a road could take through that type of terrain without some serious Norwegian style tunnelling. However, the A890 doesn't take much traffic so a scheme like that can't really be justified.

Whenever I go to Skye I almost always take the A890 as it's one of the UK's finest drives and the number of times you rise and fall on the Strathcarron to A87 stretch really makes the road feel like a roller coaster. Last time I drove the road was in early 2009 and they were resurfacing some of the steep hills and in the process, widening the road to a twisty S2. Still, it's an improvement from struggling up a steep S1 only to have a camper van come careering down the hill towards you.

[Glen]

Will we see another avalanche shelter built if this is going to continue being an issue for this section of road? I believe there were once plans to reroute the A890 further south into the hills behind but looking at the map, I honestly can't a logical route that a road could take through that type of terrain without some serious Norwegian style tunnelling. However, the A890 doesn't take much traffic so a scheme like that can't really be justified.

There were some proposals in the 80s/90s to re-route the road away from the coast - roughly Gleann Udalain to Attadale - but as it would have needed to be built in one go it was decided that it would be too big a scheme to be justified for this road.

I think when the Stromeferry bypass was built in the 60s it was thought that the railway would eventually close and the road could be widened and moved away from the rock face at a later date.

[WHBM]

But if the council suggest running an earlier train First Scotrail's answer will be "if you pay us the full running costs".

I think that if the COSTS were to be charged the council would be quite happy with that. The issue arises when they are asked for a sum which is a substantial multiple of those costs.

[Big Nick]

I thought they would have reopened the boat service from Stromeferry, rendering this sign incorrect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Strom ... _ferry.jpg

The ferry was similar to that at Ballachulish
http://her.highland.gov.uk/hbsmrgateway ... /87182.pdf
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24718842@N04/3188990100/

[J--M--B]

Also, I wonder if this is the longest detour in the UK. Are there any other locations where a road closure forces a longer diversion (excluding by water)?

Rob

It depends how you measure the distance of a detour. You get one figure for someone arriving at a closure and having to turn around, go around the detour to somewhere just the other side of the closure.

But completely different for someone seeing advance warning (if there is any - see my previous message about the line of HGVs at the landslide at Corran in December, unable to turn around) and changing their route.

[Rob_A1010]

It depends how you measure the distance of a detour. You get one figure for someone arriving at a closure and having to turn around, go around the detour to somewhere just the other side of the closure.

But completely different for someone seeing advance warning (if there is any - see my previous message about the line of HGVs at the landslide at Corran in December, unable to turn around) and changing their route.

I take your point. In posting the question I was rather thinking of the first.

Rob

[Glen]

But completely different for someone seeing advance warning (if there is any - see my previous message about the line of HGVs at the landslide at Corran in December, unable to turn around) and changing their route.

There are plenty of permanent signs for the Stromeferry Bypass being closed (although they seem to have forgotten to open the one at Bun Loyne).
File:A87 - A890 Closed.jpg
File:A890 Closed.jpg

[Glen]

I thought they would have reopened the boat service from Stromeferry, rendering this sign incorrect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Strom ... _ferry.jpg

There are suggestions of getting a vehicle ferry service, possibly using the Glenahulish (former Ballachulish ferry) from Glenelg which doesn't operate during the winter, or the Maid of Glencoul, the second vessel from Corran.

That sign is incorrect anyway, it should say "Stromeferry", then it wouldn't need the silly "(No ferry)" bit.

I take your point. In posting the question I was rather thinking of the first.

Laxford bridge was closed a few years ago due to accident damage, the route from one side of the bridge to the other via an alternative route is around 120 miles.

[Rob_A1010]

Laxford bridge was closed a few years ago due to accident damage, the route from one side of the bridge to the other via an alternative route is around 120 miles.

Goodness me, that is certainly a long way around to have to go!

Rob

[michael769]

But if the council suggest running an earlier train First Scotrail's answer will be "if you pay us the full running costs".

I think that if the COSTS were to be charged the council would be quite happy with that. The issue arises when they are asked for a sum which is a substantial multiple of those costs.

The reality is you cannot just add a service because you want one due to the critical lack of spare capacity in the fleet:

Council: Run extra train - we'll pay the staff and diesel costs.
Scotrail: Sure but all our rolling stock is in use so you need to get Transport Scotland to allow us to cut a service somewhere else to free a train up
Council (To TS): We need Scotrail to run an extra train can we have a train please?
TS: There are no spare sets and we are not cutting services!
Council (to SR): Any other options?
Scotrail: Sure hire us some coaches, and pay a freight operator to provide a driver and loco for them.

Council (on seeing bill charged by ROSCO to hire some MK I carriages rotting unwanted in a siding that they were given for free by Major's givernment): WTF? We cannot afford that!
Scotrail: Don't you think we would like to add more capacity to our few profitable but overcrowded route if we had stock to spare? Welcome the the reality of a "privatised" railway micromanaged by the DfT!

[A303Paul]

I'm sure if there were any spare trains to be had, then the railway company would happily run them.

Fact - there are more trains on the far north/Kyle lines than in any time in their history.

The difference is that in the old days far fewer passenger trains ran, not least as they had to make room for freight.

There was also far less intensive utilisation of trains with rolling stock lying around the network unused half the time.

Beeching quite rightly put a stop to that waste of taxpayers money, not least as a modern DMU costs about ten times as much as a wooden bodies steam hauled coach.

The reason the Kyle line's first arrival is not until 11AM at Kyle is that the timetable has been recast, there is now a commuter service provided to Dingwall and no need for a train to leave inverness at 5AM in the morning (which is when it would have to leave in order to reach Kyle at 9AM - I suspect there would not be many on it. A train is stabled overnight at Kyle giving an early departure to Inverness.

In any case, were the road to be closed long enough I'm sure contingencies could be put in place as was done in Workington where a temporary station was built.

[A935]

Scotrail are already short of sets because of damage from hitting various obstructions earlier this week - http://www.scotrail.co.uk/trainsshortage. There were five 170s out of service with storm damage when I was last at work on Thursday night. You might say 'Ah but for the Kyle line it's 158s you need' and you'd be right (though RETB 156s would do just as well subject to Inverness and Kyle crews still signing them, which I am sure they don't) but any shortfall in available 170s will squeeze the 158 fleet too. Running a railway is a complicated business!

[Rob_A1010]

Scotrail: Don't you think we would like to add more capacity to our few profitable but overcrowded route if we had stock to spare? Welcome the the reality of a "privatised" railway micromanaged by the DfT!

Was going well until the end - in Scotland domestic railways are micromanaged by Transport Scotland!