But how deep does the rock instability go ?Burns wrote:Let's hope they go with the bridge or the tunnel. Preferably the latter since Scotland doesn't have nearly enough road tunnels for such a mountainous country.
A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
- Mark Hewitt
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
I would have thought a bridge would be the best option, is a low level bridge viable here?
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
Besides maintaining the existing route - which has to be considered as the costs of putting in place emergency measures are probably pretty favourable compared to new road schemes - the only sensible options are an inland route or a bridge, tunnels cost stupid money to build and a fortune to operate and there is no way it will ever happen on a non-trunk road unless someone else is paying in full.
I don't know how navigable Loch Carron needs to be at that point, certainly Plockton marina is used by many vessels, but I don't know if that extends to Lochcarron.
If a bridge needs to have clearance for masted boats it will probably rule it out on cost ground as something the size of the Skye Bridge couldn't be justified for that route.
I don't know how navigable Loch Carron needs to be at that point, certainly Plockton marina is used by many vessels, but I don't know if that extends to Lochcarron.
If a bridge needs to have clearance for masted boats it will probably rule it out on cost ground as something the size of the Skye Bridge couldn't be justified for that route.
That's because in Scotland we build roads where they need to go and over hills if necessary, rather than pandering to the National Trust and vastly inflating the costs of projects because it might not look nice in some apparently attractive countryside.Burns wrote:Let's hope they go with the bridge or the tunnel. Preferably the latter since Scotland doesn't have nearly enough road tunnels for such a mountainous country.
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
Perhaps a swing bridge could be the answer? Allows a low level build but can open for sailing ships too.
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
Why not just re-route the road to run seaward of the railway line - it would need level crossings at each end and a new causeway in the loch.
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
If the railway wasn't there the obvious solution would be to build out into the loch, when the road was being planned the assumption was the railway probably wouldn't last much longer and that would allow for the road to be improved.
But the fact that the railway is there will make anything much more complicated to construct and of course more expensive. Also, Network Rail, ORR, train drivers etc aren't exactly keen on the idea of new level crossings.
The railway and road could both be realigned, but the cost of closing the railway for months could end up being more costly than building ten miles of road on a new route.
But the fact that the railway is there will make anything much more complicated to construct and of course more expensive. Also, Network Rail, ORR, train drivers etc aren't exactly keen on the idea of new level crossings.
The railway and road could both be realigned, but the cost of closing the railway for months could end up being more costly than building ten miles of road on a new route.
Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
IIRC the problem with this is that due to the lake being gouged out of the rock by a glacier it has a U shaped profile rather than the V shape found where water has eroded a path through the landscape. Thus building ou into thr Loch would be increadably expensive - just tipping a bit of rock in there wont do - it needs something akin to a continious bridge structure - a solution used elsewhere in Scotland I believe but over much shorter distances than would be needed here.Ruperts Trooper wrote:Why not just re-route the road to run seaward of the railway line - it would need level crossings at each end and a new causeway in the loch.
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
Lake? ... Loch, my dear chapPhil wrote:IIRC the problem with this is that due to the lake being gouged out of the rock by a glacier it has a U shaped profile rather than the V shape found where water has eroded a path through the landscape. Thus building ou into thr Loch would be increadably expensive - just tipping a bit of rock in there wont do - it needs something akin to a continious bridge structure - a solution used elsewhere in Scotland I believe but over much shorter distances than would be needed here.
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
And it's a sea loch, which is definitely not a lake by any definition.novaecosse wrote:Lake? ... Loch, my dear chap
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
Although some tidal inlets in England are called lakes.Glen wrote:And it's a sea loch, which is definitely not a lake by any definition.novaecosse wrote:Lake? ... Loch, my dear chap
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
There is something in one of the papers this week about them wanting to spend £60 million on a bridge though of course Highland Council can't afford £60 million!
The people in Lochcarron are all in favour of course.
It will make it easy for the men in white vans to cut the BT fibre cables too, won't have to get wet.
The people in Lochcarron are all in favour of course.
It will make it easy for the men in white vans to cut the BT fibre cables too, won't have to get wet.
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- Mark Hewitt
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
£60 million does seem a lot. How does that compare to securing the rock face permanently?
Perhaps if there was another rock fall they could deploy the 'level crossing' next day instead of talking about it for weeks and weeks..
Perhaps if there was another rock fall they could deploy the 'level crossing' next day instead of talking about it for weeks and weeks..
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
Now they've done it once under the new dispensation, I think you're talking a matter of days to put the plan into action.
Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
BBC News
23 June 2012 Last updated at 00:11
Stromeferry bypass solution costs revealed
Highland Council has revealed the estimated costs of potential long-term solutions to the trouble-hit A890 Stromeferry bypass in Wester Ross.
............
JMB
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"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
Fort William
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"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
I wonder what the logistics would be of being able to "switch in" an RETB exchange point as required at Stromeferry.
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
So the options can be summarised as thus:
£10m (over 20 years) repair and patch where needed
£23m bypass
£60m bridge
£69m stablising the rockface
£94m tunnel
£109m avalanche shelters and widenin
£115m new road on the other side of the railway
I assume the first option is just the status quo with the road being closed at various times, so not ideal.
Building a new bypass seems by far the cheapest option IMO they should just go for that. But no doubt there will be delay after delay and we'll end up with option 1 through inaction.
(Doesn't personally concern me of course, I've only ever driven that road once in each direction )
£10m (over 20 years) repair and patch where needed
£23m bypass
£60m bridge
£69m stablising the rockface
£94m tunnel
£109m avalanche shelters and widenin
£115m new road on the other side of the railway
I assume the first option is just the status quo with the road being closed at various times, so not ideal.
Building a new bypass seems by far the cheapest option IMO they should just go for that. But no doubt there will be delay after delay and we'll end up with option 1 through inaction.
(Doesn't personally concern me of course, I've only ever driven that road once in each direction )
Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
JMB
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http://www.mbriscoe.me.uk
"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
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"Give me the third best technology. The second best won't be ready in time. The best will never be ready." Robert Watson-Watt
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
I would have liked to see all the goings-on there
Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
Strangely enough in the days before fibre optic and modern systems, high density cables never got cut. Well if they did, the folks cutting them would have got a nasty surprise. Due to the reliability of power in remote places, the older analog systems employed power feeding over the coax cable, with up to 1000v AC employed. At Blackrock ( 6 miles south of Fort William) there was a dead section, powered by a generator at that site.J--M--B wrote:.
It will make it easy for the men in white vans to cut the BT fibre cables too, won't have to get wet.
Cars on rail - used to be common in the 60's, especially in highland villages with a nasty road. I remember my father in one of his jobs as a porter in Mallaig telling me of loading high end stuff on wagons heading south. The owners could wine/dine /sleep on the train south rather than a long trek with ( to them first 50 miles of single track road).
- Ruperts Trooper
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Re: A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour
That was BR's Motorail service from 1955 but may have used individual services before that.OLD GIT wrote: Cars on rail - used to be common in the 60's, especially in highland villages with a nasty road. I remember my father in one of his jobs as a porter in Mallaig telling me of loading high end stuff on wagons heading south. The owners could wine/dine /sleep on the train south rather than a long trek with ( to them first 50 miles of single track road).
Lifelong motorhead