A890: Cars could go on rails to end 140-mile detour

[AndyB]

20mph would be far too quick - you're talking 5-10mph maximum. You're talking probably an extra five minutes on train times for braking, the slow run, and acceleration.

We actually talked about this back in 2012 (see pages 10-11 or so.) The temporary diversion looked like this:



In terms of traffic regulation, even if the road became S2 using the railway line when available, I think treating it as an LC is the only option, and I still think that local monitoring isn't an option due to length.

[rileyrob]

Another issue here is that presumably any such rail on road solution would only be called in to use if there had been a landslip. As a landslip could occur at almost any point over a length of about 1.5miles, despite the trees, the S2 and the avalanche shelter, any solution presumably needs to allow for multiple crossover points or a very very long level crossing.
I feel sure that this solution would still prove cheaper than the others put forward (unless bespoke rolling stock had to be built) but it wouldn't necessarily be so resilient.

[Helvellyn]

I may be a civilian, but thankfully I'm well informed about level crossings

I know RETB lines might be different, and I know that the on-street running on the WHR at Porthmadog is signalled as an AOCL without barriers, but I would have suggested that the A890 situation would have been best as manual barriers with CCTV to prevent incursions by road vehicles when a train was approaching, and colour light signals to stop trains if a vehicle is stuck because the train driver can't see the whole "crossing" to see if it's clear - just a question of whether you can have an MCB (CCTV) in an RETB section with no other colour light signals.

I wonder if from a railway point of view that would be similar to the swing bridges over the Caledonian Canal? (although the one on the Mallaig line is right next to the control centre for the line, so is manually observed, not so sure what goes on at the Inverness end). IIRC the level crossing at Arisaig, well in RETB territory, is ungated, but I can't see that being repeated these days, especially with a longer length.

Turning the whole thing into a tramway sounds like a non-starter. With a single track line you've got trains (or trams) running in both directions in the same place, which doesn't sound like a good mix with a road. And by the time you've found a tram that you wouldn't be out of your mind to want to travel that distance on you've probably built a train instead.

[Robin]

Time was when it would be no problem to arrange an extra school train for these 60 pupils; railway staff used to pride themselves on doing this sort of thing, notwithstanding that the railway received way less public subsidy then than they do now.

. . . and that is the great continuing scandal of the privatisation of the railways which, John Major assured us, would once and for all get the railways off the taxpayer's back.

[Helvellyn]

Time was when it would be no problem to arrange an extra school train for these 60 pupils; railway staff used to pride themselves on doing this sort of thing, notwithstanding that the railway received way less public subsidy then than they do now.(quote]

. . . and that is the great continuing scandal of the privatisation of the railways which, John Major assured us, would once and for all get the railways off the taxpayer's back.

How much subsidy does it get now? IIRC one of the reasons given for above-inflation fare increases is less government money.

Sticking extra trains on like that means that you need to have them somewhere, spending quite a bit of time not in use for the odd occasion when they are needed. Nowdays everything has to work pretty much around the clock (made a bit easier by it being more reliable than it once was), trains sitting around in sidings most of the time being trains that are very inefficiently used. You could argue that we've gone too far to that extreme but the number of carriages BR had that were hardly ever used was rather a burden. And they're far more expensive these days too, which presumably isn't made up for having to pay a fraction of the number of people. Besides it's not as if BR was ever raking in vast profits.

[rileyrob]

More (planned) closures on the A890 this year:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-43653918

Annual inspection works to take place this month, and then 12 weeks with overnight closures in the Autumn for 'major remedial works'. Not actually a bypass for the bypass though.

[Burns]

If they'd built that 2km tunnel they discussed a few years ago, we wouldn't be in this situation. Just saying...

[rileyrob]

More news on a road-rail solution during roadworks:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-45586750

[Euan]

I have seen a timetable published by Highland Council detailing the windows of opportunity when the railway will be open to certain vehicles (not large or heavy vehicles though) via a convoy system, based on Scotrail's train timetable. It is worth noting that the "road-railway" opening times seem to suggest that out of the few services that operate on this remote single line, they same to be concentrated nearer the middle of the day like in the couple or so hours either side of noon. With little or no train service at the start and end of the day, the open periods are much longer as a result. Overall it seems like a very good idea as a temporary arrangement for the A890 along the south shore of Loch Carron, as long as you are not driving a large lorry in which case you still have to cross to other side of the Highlands and back again.

[rileyrob]

Another update on this 'level crossing':
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... s-45963730
Essentially, Network Rail have installed new signalling equipment to reduce the road closure times from approx 1 hr to 20 mins.

[wrinkly]

There was a Network Rail press release a few days ago. I meant to post it but couldn't immediately find this thread and then forgot.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/feeds/new ... motorists/

[Euan]

This should help quite a bit. The road closure timetable that I looked at a few weeks ago seemed to have very long periods of closure time, longer than what would be expected after studying the train timetable.

[Mark Hewitt]

I believe this stretch uses Radio Electronic Token Block but as far as I can tell that’s just a fancy method of track possession like holding onto a ring or staff. As trains aren’t very frequent on the line means a single train as possession of a substantial length of line. So cars can’t be allowed to cross if there’s a train anywhere in that block. Even if it’s miles away.

It sounds like they’ve come up with a good solution here

[Euan]

From Highland Council:

https://www.highland.gov.uk/info/1523/t ... rry_bypass

It looks like the closure timetable for the A890 has now been scrapped given how brief the closures now are. The road is still closed at night though.