Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

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Ritchie333
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Ritchie333 »

I drove through the crossing for the first time in a while last night. Northbound there was a red light due to an overheight vehicle, which caused a queue of about 2-3 minutes. Inside the tunnel traffic was doing an average speed of 40-45.

Coming back the other way, however, was incredible. It was the first time I can remember the QEII bridge being free flowing, and felt more like the Severn Bridge. No stopping, straight into Kent. Excellent.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by WHBM »

ronA1066 wrote: Removal of the toll booths was supposed to solve the crossing's congestion problems but, if anything, it seems to have made things worse.
There are still traffic signals approaching the tunnels. Dartford has always had a paranoia about fuel tankers, they are escorted through with other traffic held back. They marshal initially in the large layby to the west side of where the tollbooths used to be. For whatever reason the key criteria seems to be to avoid any delay to the tankers, so as soon as there are a couple there the traffic is stopped and the tankers escorted out. A few minutes later, repeat. Hence the queues.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by michael769 »

multiraider2 wrote:Even with the barriers and toll, the traffic always seemed to mysteriously speed up upon approach to the exit of the tunnel. This is clearly not through the disappearance of any traffic at the exit of the tunnel, so is the only explanation that individual vehicles travelled at much less than the 50 limit and sped up as exiting the tunnel, despite no change in speed limit? This continuined in exactly the same fashion on removal of the barriers.
Does the tunnel have much of a slope? Inattentive drivers often slow in response to a gradient, when the gradient is non obvious (as is often the case in tunnels) that makes this effect even worse.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by PeterA5145 »

IIRC there is a lower speed limit through the tunnels, probably 50.

This on its own will disrupt the flow of traffic and potentially send concertina waves back many miles.

Also simply entering a tunnel will result in many drivers easing up a bit.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by michael769 »

PeterA5145 wrote:
Also simply entering a tunnel will result in many drivers easing up a bit.
It didn't in the Clyde Tunnel. Though that may have changed these days, it's been some years since I went through.

Back when I did use it regularly it was a bit like the wacky races. The Limit was 30, but you'd rarely see anyone going under 50.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by t1(M) »

michael769 wrote:Does the tunnel have much of a slope? Inattentive drivers often slow in response to a gradient, when the gradient is non obvious (as is often the case in tunnels) that makes this effect even worse.
The gradient coming out of the tunnel is extremely obvious, so much so that I imagine some HGVs would struggle to maintain 50 on it
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by multiraider2 »

t1(M) wrote:
michael769 wrote:Does the tunnel have much of a slope? Inattentive drivers often slow in response to a gradient, when the gradient is non obvious (as is often the case in tunnels) that makes this effect even worse.
The gradient coming out of the tunnel is extremely obvious, so much so that I imagine some HGVs would struggle to maintain 50 on it
It seems to be on the slope up that the speed increases generally. It seems to be daylight that is the driver of the increase. People won't speed or apparently get near to it in the tunnel, but on the way back home on the bridge, with an equivalent slope and with me travelling at an indicated 51 mph, everyone seemed to be passing me. Trucks included.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Berk »

multiraider2 wrote:
t1(M) wrote:
michael769 wrote:Does the tunnel have much of a slope? Inattentive drivers often slow in response to a gradient, when the gradient is non obvious (as is often the case in tunnels) that makes this effect even worse.
The gradient coming out of the tunnel is extremely obvious, so much so that I imagine some HGVs would struggle to maintain 50 on it
It seems to be on the slope up that the speed increases generally. It seems to be daylight that is the driver of the increase. People won't speed or apparently get near to it in the tunnel, but on the way back home on the bridge, with an equivalent slope and with me travelling at an indicated 51 mph, everyone seemed to be passing me. Trucks included.
Very much so, this was my experience. It was a cloudy evening, with light rain. ATM was active, but most traffic was driving at 10mph below the indicated limits (basically according to what the next sign along was saying. Down to only 30 on tunnel approaches. Despite green lights all the way, and just 15 when first inside the tunnel. Not really how a highway is meant to operate... I didn't even think the traffic was particularly heavy.

The gradient did surprise me a little though. And presumably other drivers even more so.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Lockwood »

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dacted.pdf
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT REQUEST - DART CHARGE
Thank you for your emails under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 requesting further
information about Dart Charge. The specific details of your request have been extracted from
your email and are highlighted in bold below and answered within the body of this letter.
1. What is the overall income in fines from Dart Charge crossings?
Between 30 November 2014 to 31 August 2015 the value of Penalty Charges that have been
paid is £4,837,013.39.
Just a few, then
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Big L »

Lockwood wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... dacted.pdf
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT REQUEST - DART CHARGE
Thank you for your emails under the Freedom of Information Act 2000 requesting further
information about Dart Charge. The specific details of your request have been extracted from
your email and are highlighted in bold below and answered within the body of this letter.
1. What is the overall income in fines from Dart Charge crossings?
Between 30 November 2014 to 31 August 2015 the value of Penalty Charges that have been
paid is £4,837,013.39.
Just a few, then
And what is the value of penalty charges not paid I wonder?
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Berk »

I experienced a slightly different problem. I paid in advance before my trip, a week early in fact. Which should've been fine, you might think. Apart from the fact that the system was claiming my trip was unpaid the day after my crossing.

So, rather than risk a PCN being automatically issued. I paid again. Better to lose another £2.50, I thought, than £35 for an unwarranted PCN. I did mean to complain about the extra £2.50, but for various reasons haven't been able to.

I've now set up an account, which I discovered does not need to be pre-funded. So in future, I'll just pay for the crossings I need, and top my account up accordingly.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Ritchie333 »

I forgot I was slightly over the allowance on my account and a round trip to Essex has netted £70 in fines :(
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by c2R »

Ritchie333 wrote:I forgot I was slightly over the allowance on my account and a round trip to Essex has netted £70 in fines :(
Indeed - that's why I pre-funded mine with automatic top up as my memory's dreadful and I know that I'd forget to pay..
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by multiraider2 »

The £10 that I keep in there (minimum) takes away completely from any "Have I topped it up enough?" worries. I know the minimum was causing some consternation on here but for £10 or even £20, its a complete no-brainer as far as I am concerned.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Berk »

multiraider2 wrote:The £10 that I keep in there (minimum) takes away completely from any "Have I topped it up enough?" worries. I know the minimum was causing some consternation on here but for £10 or even £20, its a complete no-brainer as far as I am concerned.
I guess it is, if you live in the south, or use the crossing regularly.

But for people like myself, it's but an occasional 'treat'. I don't see what the problem is with people like myself having an account, and not funding it unless they need to pay. Pre-loading funds for occasional users smacks of making money/use of 'float'. In other words lending money to the business/increasing the margin/operating profit, etc. etc.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Andy33gmail »

Just go the other way round :-D
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Berk »

Andy33gmail wrote:Just go the other way round :-D
What, into the cesspit of congestion that forms the western half?? Braving Jcts 10-13?? And the Heathrow section?? Not bloody likely...

And how many more miles would that add to my journey?? I'm hardly one of those desperate types who are so determined to avoid tolls, even if they lost more in petrol and miles than they possibly could in charges...
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Andy33gmail »

Amphibious car?
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Berk »

Andy33gmail wrote:Amphibious car?
Nice try. :great
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Comstock »

Berk wrote:
Andy33gmail wrote:Just go the other way round :-D
What, into the cesspit of congestion that forms the western half?? Braving Jcts 10-13?? And the Heathrow section?? Not bloody likely...

And how many more miles would that add to my journey?? I'm hardly one of those desperate types who are so determined to avoid tolls, even if they lost more in petrol and miles than they possibly could in charges...
£70 worth of fines (how long before that becomes £100+) buys quite a lot of petrol. Go the other way or use blackwall if you are so far east that going round isn't an option.

Where are you coming from and to?
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