Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Queues back to J3 and 4 all day yesterday and this morning on the Southern approach, thanks (according to BBC Kent) to the introduction of a new safety system to stop overheight vehicles entering the tunnels.
I had hoped things would be better this week as they were removing the barriers when heading North...
I had hoped things would be better this week as they were removing the barriers when heading North...
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Has there been any news about where this system is spreading to next? I did wonder if the Severn Bridge or the Mersey Tunnels might try it.
I deliberately drove across the river to cross the Blackwall Tunnel off my bucket list the other week, just in case they start using it there. The tunnel is already smothered with ANPR so it would be very easy
I deliberately drove across the river to cross the Blackwall Tunnel off my bucket list the other week, just in case they start using it there. The tunnel is already smothered with ANPR so it would be very easy
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
There's no incentive to use it elsewhere as other tolls don't cause congestion in the way Dartford does.
Bryn
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
- PeterA5145
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
It's going to be used on the New Mersey Crossing between Runcorn and Widnes.Bryn666 wrote:There's no incentive to use it elsewhere as other tolls don't cause congestion in the way Dartford does.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
That is probably wise - having to queue to pay tolls would annoy everyone from Halton who gets a free crossing.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Oooh this vexed me this week.
Last week going south, I fought with the mobile phone and managed to pay the Dartford toll, and sensibly also paid for the way back.
On the way back, got delayed on the Chunnel and passed through Dartford tunnels at 10:02pm. No toll neded after 10pm
Last week going south, I fought with the mobile phone and managed to pay the Dartford toll, and sensibly also paid for the way back.
On the way back, got delayed on the Chunnel and passed through Dartford tunnels at 10:02pm. No toll neded after 10pm
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Good evening folks
We've taken some posts to the Holding Area. It's no reflection on the people who made the posts, but some posts had been edited by the original poster so that the replies no longer made sense.
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We've taken some posts to the Holding Area. It's no reflection on the people who made the posts, but some posts had been edited by the original poster so that the replies no longer made sense.
Andy
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Interesting press release from Highways England which shows the AADT for the crossing from 2003 to 2015. However scroll down the document and it provides AADT from opening in 1963. Before you open the document have a guess at the total number of vehicles which have used the crossing since 1963 which is also included at the bottom of the first page
Dartford Crossing AADT's
Dartford Crossing AADT's
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
It's not spoiling the surprise to say that a third of all crossings that have ever been made at Dartford have been made in the last decade. That's quite an astonishing statistic.A303Chris wrote:Interesting press release from Highways England which shows the AADT for the crossing from 2003 to 2015. However scroll down the document and it provides AADT from opening in 1963. Before you open the document have a guess at the total number of vehicles which have used the crossing since 1963 which is also included at the bottom of the first page
Dartford Crossing AADT's
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
I don't find that particularly surprising: it has only been open for five decades and for the first three decades it had less than half the capacity it does now. Note the significant surge in throughput in 1992 when the bridge opened.
Not so obvious what happened at the first doubling of capacity when the second tunnel opened in 1980, as no figures are given for the individual years before that - however the average for 1965 - 1980 is just under 9.1 million.
Does anyone know why the numbers have been falling every year for the last decade? (Last year's increase was the first since 2005) The only other year throughput fell was in 1990, which may be connected to access difficulties during construction of the bridge.
There are also two different sets of figures for 2003/4!
Not so obvious what happened at the first doubling of capacity when the second tunnel opened in 1980, as no figures are given for the individual years before that - however the average for 1965 - 1980 is just under 9.1 million.
Does anyone know why the numbers have been falling every year for the last decade? (Last year's increase was the first since 2005) The only other year throughput fell was in 1990, which may be connected to access difficulties during construction of the bridge.
There are also two different sets of figures for 2003/4!
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
The 2003-4 duplication appears to adjusting the period to be April to March as opposed to October to September but that wouldn't explain why the highest count was recorded on different days for the different figures.t1(M) wrote:..Does anyone know why the numbers have been falling every year for the last decade? (Last year's increase was the first since 2005) The only other year throughput fell was in 1990, which may be connected to access difficulties during construction of the bridge.
There are also two different sets of figures for 2003/4!
A quick look at the AADT site from DfT suggests that almost all the reduction is due to lower car numbers with HGV and LGV numbers holding up better. As for a reason, my thoughts are lower general economic activity with a marked reduction (15%) noted in 2010 post election?
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
That is almost certainly the explanation. Note that both sets of figures include a "highest day" of 18th July with exactly the same number of crossings, but in one set it is 2003/4 and in the other 2002/3. A change of accounting year would cause 18th July 2003 to be in 2002/3 in the older calendar and 2003/4 in the newer set. (Oct 2002-Sept 2003, and April 2003-March 2004)RichardA35 wrote: The 2003-4 duplication appears to adjusting the period to be April to March as opposed to October to September but that wouldn't explain why the highest count was recorded on different days for the different figures.
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
The progressive increase in tolls must have some impact on the marginal journeys such as SE London/Kent to E London. I know I vary backwards and forwards between turning off the M25 to use the A2 and Blackwall, dependent on what I guess any Blackwall delay -vs- Dartford delay might be.
It's now £2.50. Not that long ago it was £1.
It's now £2.50. Not that long ago it was £1.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
I would have thought that the reputation for delays would have been more of a factor for marginal journeys than the cost actually. I would not be surprised to see a significant jump in the number of crossings once they finally finish all the works associated with the free flow works and the delays are (hopefully) much rarer.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Twice recently I have encountered long delays northbound approaching the Dartford Crossing, stretching back beyond J4. From there it took over an hour to get through the tunnel.
Removal of the toll booths was supposed to solve the crossing's congestion problems but, if anything, it seems to have made things worse. Oddly, the congestion now continues through the tunnel but then vanishes. So what's the problem? Has usage of the crossing suddenly increased, either because people think that it will be less congested or because they think they can get away without paying? With the removal of the toll booths is it now the speed limit through the tunnel that's the problem? There doesn't seem to be such a problem going south, though.
Any thoughts?
Removal of the toll booths was supposed to solve the crossing's congestion problems but, if anything, it seems to have made things worse. Oddly, the congestion now continues through the tunnel but then vanishes. So what's the problem? Has usage of the crossing suddenly increased, either because people think that it will be less congested or because they think they can get away without paying? With the removal of the toll booths is it now the speed limit through the tunnel that's the problem? There doesn't seem to be such a problem going south, though.
Any thoughts?
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Do you still have to stop at the barriers which automatically rise after a second or two?
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
No, they've gone. The main four lanes continue through into the tunnel with hardly a wiggle.Truvelo wrote:Do you still have to stop at the barriers which automatically rise after a second or two?
- multiraider2
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
Even with the barriers and toll, the traffic always seemed to mysteriously speed up upon approach to the exit of the tunnel. This is clearly not through the disappearance of any traffic at the exit of the tunnel, so is the only explanation that individual vehicles travelled at much less than the 50 limit and sped up as exiting the tunnel, despite no change in speed limit? This continuined in exactly the same fashion on removal of the barriers.
I said to my wife and children on Sunday. "It's four lanes and those continue as four lanes through the tunnels and out the other side. Why is everyone slowing down?"
Is it actually confusion about the new layout still? Expectation of a stop? Weaving on approach? Junction 1A traffic joining? Generally gawping to have a look instead of concentrating on the traffic flow? As you say, southbound these delays don't seem to occur.
However, having said all that, on Sunday whilst there was a sluggish approach and the phantom slowing down in the tunnel itself, there was not any point where I stopped completely pre-tunnel.
I said to my wife and children on Sunday. "It's four lanes and those continue as four lanes through the tunnels and out the other side. Why is everyone slowing down?"
Is it actually confusion about the new layout still? Expectation of a stop? Weaving on approach? Junction 1A traffic joining? Generally gawping to have a look instead of concentrating on the traffic flow? As you say, southbound these delays don't seem to occur.
However, having said all that, on Sunday whilst there was a sluggish approach and the phantom slowing down in the tunnel itself, there was not any point where I stopped completely pre-tunnel.
Last edited by multiraider2 on Tue Sep 01, 2015 13:46, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging
It could just be the volume of traffic – if removal of the tolls has to an increase in usage, particularly for short journeys to just north of the tunnels, then that could explain why the traffic is worse than expected. Instinctively I feel that a 2+2 carriageway with no lane changes should have a lower practical throughput than a 4-lane carriageway with lane changes allowed, but I don't know if that is true – if it is then it would explain why the southbound carriageway flows better.ronA1066 wrote:Twice recently I have encountered long delays northbound approaching the Dartford Crossing, stretching back beyond J4. From there it took over an hour to get through the tunnel.
Removal of the toll booths was supposed to solve the crossing's congestion problems but, if anything, it seems to have made things worse. Oddly, the congestion now continues through the tunnel but then vanishes. So what's the problem? Has usage of the crossing suddenly increased, either because people think that it will be less congested or because they think they can get away without paying? With the removal of the toll booths is it now the speed limit through the tunnel that's the problem? There doesn't seem to be such a problem going south, though.
Any thoughts?