Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

[michael769]

Do what Scotland does.

[kevintiobraid]

How good are the ANPR systems used for these sorts of things - the only one I have experience of is that being used by our local supermarket (big signs as you go in and out) which gets mine wrong from time to time. (To the point I got an overstayed warning on the way out last week, on a 20 minute visit..)

The one on the M50 if fairly good in my experience. I regularly hire cars at Dublin airport and pass through the toll. The hire companies have an agreement with the toll company, when the number plate is picked up, it gets automatically passed back to the hire company which charges your credit card. It hasn't once failed to pick up on any toll crossing I've done.
You can tailgate a lorry or white van and the cameras won't pick up your reg....but they have cottoned onto this:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ta ... 37630.html

[exiled]

The one on the M50 if fairly good in my experience. I regularly hire cars at Dublin airport and pass through the toll. The hire companies have an agreement with the toll company, when the number plate is picked up, it gets automatically passed back to the hire company which charges your credit card. It hasn't once failed to pick up on any toll crossing I've done.
You can tailgate a lorry or white van and the cameras won't pick up your reg....but they have cottoned onto this:
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ta ... 37630.html

Ireland has the advantage that no other European licence plates look like Ireland's.

The ABC in Australia has 10 000 NSW motorists charged for using Melbourne's ANPR/e-toll motorways as the system differentiate between licences plates issued by different Australian states.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-07/1 ... ge/3816132

[Chris_533976]

The M50 tolling in Ireland works pretty well, so basically copying that would be an idea. When they were doing the M50, they said "oh no, the toll booths are not the cause of congestion".

The way I'd read into that is that you can forget the 7 mile jamups approaching Dartford and QE2 from the minute any barrier free tolling starts. It will be nothing but a good thing.

[PeterA5145]

The M50 tolling in Ireland works pretty well, so basically copying that would be an idea. When they were doing the M50, they said "oh no, the toll booths are not the cause of congestion".

Ireland is different as the number of "out of area" cars is very small.

So, on the M50, if you are a one-off traveller, and do not have Internet access, a mobile phone or a bank card, how do you pay the toll? And is that method quicker and easier than using a tollbooth?

[Mark Hewitt]

It will be slower for *you* but it will be faster for everyone else.

The concern is of course, even if you do have a phone, or internet access etc. That's it's just very easy to forget that 4 hours ago you went through that toll tunnel thingy, now you have to remember to pay the toll charge. What was the website address? Or even the name of the tunnel, or was it a bridge?

[Fenlander]

Is that any different to the London congestion charge?

[Mark Hewitt]

Is that any different to the London congestion charge?

Yes; because you don't drive into the centre of London while on the way to somewhere else. It's a very deliberate choice.

Whereas on the Dartford crossing you could have started your day in Rouen and ended it in Glasgow with Dartford being just a tiny part of a long journey.

[tidalflow]

I have been to Kent recently and read about the proposed plans to remove the barriers and collect tolls via number plate recognition.

I am really interested to see how this will work in practice. I guess that the drivers will be required to buy a toll before driving.

Not sure how foreign plates will be chased for the toll, seeing only this week the local news had a feature on how much local authorities lost on car park fees from such vehicles.

I suppose it will be quicker passing through the tolls. I would be interested to know other members thoughts on this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23334597
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22189967

(post merged into existing topic by PeterA5145 as moderator)

[Stevie D]

I have been to Kent recently and read about the proposed plans to remove the barriers and collect tolls via number plate recognition.

I am really interested to see how this will work in practice. I guess that the drivers will be required to buy a toll before driving.

That's where it's going to fall down.

When I head down to the south-east, I have a choice of which way round the M25 I go, or I may even choose to skirt across London ... and I might not decide what I'm going to do until I'm en route and listening to traffic reports on the radio. I don't want to be pre-paying a toll that I might or might not use, but nor do I want to have to pull off the road and go through the hassle of paying by mobile phone once I decide which way I'm turning onto the M25.

Leaving aside all the non-regular drivers who only go that way occasionally, and so are likely to not know about the change in the first place, and to forget about it once they do know. You can't help thinking that they are banking on a lot of the shortfall from evasion being made up by fines from infrequent users who simply forget, which hardly seems fair.

[James H]

So what happens to my DART-Tag? Do I still get a reduced crossing charge for topping up in advance?

I counted two references to the tag in the PDF, but no answers about it!

[A303Chris]

This came out this afternoon stating local residents can pay £20 a year for unlimited crossings. Also talking about a charge for regular users

Greater discounts for 4,000 local residents at Dartford-Thurrock Crossing

[tidalflow]

http://www.kentonline.co.uk/dartford_me ... ing-13512/

Found this today. Not particularly clear, but you can get the idea. It will be strange no stopping for payment might take a bit of getting used too.

[Benny]

Its criminal that they are still charging.

[Glen]

No, it's democratic.

[Comstock]

If the cost of the original bridge has been covered, then they shouldn't be charging. End of.

Simple answer, of course, is to go the other way round the '25 and boycott this bridge altogether. Will it happen? Of course not.

[SteveA30]

I've been doing that for ages. That'll learn 'em.

[Brenley Corner]

Going the other way round? For some that will be fine, but surely for most that is going to cost more in fuel than the toll. For example, if I want to go from Kent and head North am I going to go the long way round (more fuel) or through London (unpredictable traffic and slower roads) or spend the cost of the toll? It should be free but, with regret, I have to hand them the toll.

Tony

[Bryn666]

It's a nice money spinner so no chance of it being scrapped any time soon.

Hopefully adjacent services will have a means to pay the toll otherwise can see lots of unpaid toll charges being sent about.

Or is that the idea...

[PeterA5145]

I've just had a bright idea

Maybe they could create a drive-through facility for one-off users to pay their tolls. It'll never catch on, though...