Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

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Alderpoint
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Alderpoint » Thu Jul 07, 2016 21:52

At least it is recognition that non-regular users may not be aware that charges apply. But I still fail to see how hard it would be to set up well-signposted pay-stations north and south of the crossing to at least give people the chance to pay before/after they cross.
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A303Chris
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by A303Chris » Wed Jul 13, 2016 09:09

Big L wrote:More likely it's the 'M25' bit that is setting the pedantic muscles twitching.
Yep that's the one that got me :) , but the midnight issue is a good one as as well
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Owain
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Owain » Wed Jul 13, 2016 09:28

I used it for first time coming back from my holiday. I prepaid online before going away, and then used my prepaid trip three weeks later.

The only reason I thought to check it out before travelling was because I'm used to the free-flow toll on the Dublin M50. Otherwise, I would probably have assumed that I could have paid at a ticket barrier.

On my outbound trip, I used the A12-Blackwall Tunnel-A2 as an alternative. This was done for reasons of Sabristic curiosity, rather than toll avoidance!
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c2R
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging Price Hike

Post by c2R » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:50

they've emailed me to warn of new charges:
Vehicle ClassStandardRateAccount Holder Discounted Rate (up to 22:00 on 30.09.2018)Account Holder Discounted Rate (from 06:00 on 01.10.2018)
A - Motorcycles, mopeds and quad bikes£0.00£0.00£0.00
B - Cars (including trailers), motorhomes and minibuses (with 9 or less seats including the driver’s seat)£2.50£1.67£2.00
C - Vehicles with 2 axles£3.00£2.63£2.63
D - Vehicles with more than 2 axles£6.00£5.19£5.19


Their rationale is that they're money grabbers who are taking advantage of inelastic demand.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by mark3evo » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:58

the problem is for the elderly and other non savvy internet users

my father who revoked his license (3 years ago)would have been stuck faced with fines !!

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Brenley Corner
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Brenley Corner » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:28

mark3evo wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:58
the problem is the elderly

non savvy internet users

my father who revoked his license (3 years ago)would have been stuck faced with fines !!
According to their website users can pay as follows:

You can make a one-off payment:
- online at www.gov.uk/dart-charge.
- over the phone by calling: 0300 300 0120.
- via a payzone retail outlet.
- by post (in advance only): Dart Charge Customer Services PO Box 842 Leeds LS1 9QF.

There's not many people out there who can't make payment over the phone or visit a payzone retail outlet if they wish to pay in cash. My Mum who is 79 would be able to make an internet payment (although she lives in the South West so would never need to do it), so not all elderly people are as internet-incapable as the press and others would have you believe.

However raising the account price from £1.67 to £2.00 is inexcusable and is either a sign of money grabbing, or 'green' policies being inflicted
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Berk » Mon Aug 20, 2018 15:48

My biggest problem is the fact it seems to affect cars ONLY. Cutting the discount from 33% to 20%.

I prefer paying in round figures, if honest, it’s just the principle of the thing. They could’ve cut it to 30% (£1.75).

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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by A303Chris » Mon Aug 20, 2018 16:17

Amazing that Tolls are removed in Scotland and the Severn Crossing ones go early next year.

However these are not tolls towards the maintenance of the bridge but a congestion charge, the approach signs say so with the Dart Charge have a big round red C on the signs.

So given in my opinion HGV's here cause as much congestion as cars why aren't they going up. Trouble is this is the only place you can cross the Thames east of London without going into London. To say it is a monopoly crossing is an understatement.

However if the additional charges are going towards the Lower Thames Crossing, I may let them off.
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tidalflow
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by tidalflow » Mon Aug 20, 2018 20:36

I use to Crossing to visit family in Kent. That A2 flyover they built a few years ago was a waste of time. Always delayed on it.

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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by c2R » Tue Aug 21, 2018 00:05

tidalflow wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 20:36
I use to Crossing to visit family in Kent. That A2 flyover they built a few years ago was a waste of time. Always delayed on it.
It does stop the traffic queueing for the tunnel from conflicting with the M25S to A2W movement in the morning peak though, and therefore I'd dispute that it's a waste of money...
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by roadtester » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:10

A couple of weeks ago I did a return trip to Surrey on a Sunday morning and forgot to pay the charge for the crossing.

I thought I had a paid crossing in hand from a previous return trip when I went home clockwise rather than anti-clockwise, and then clean forgot to pay for the second crossing when I got home.

Anyway, it turns out that my memory was faulty and I didn't have a paid crossing in hand, so I actually failed to pay for both crossings. However the Dart charge people are letting me just pay the standard crossing charge of £2.50 for both crossings. I've read before that they tend to take this lenient approach with first-time offenders but I would have expected it to apply only to the first unpaid crossing and then to be stung for the full penalty for the second.

So a bit of a bonus there.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by RichardA35 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:17

roadtester wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:10
A couple of weeks ago I did a return trip to Surrey on a Sunday morning and forgot to pay the charge for the crossing.

I thought I had a paid crossing in hand from a previous return trip when I went home clockwise rather than anti-clockwise, and then clean forgot to pay for the second crossing when I got home.

Anyway, it turns out that my memory was faulty and I didn't have a paid crossing in hand, so I actually failed to pay for both crossings. However the Dart charge people are letting me just pay the standard crossing charge of £2.50 for both crossings. I've read before that they tend to take this lenient approach with first-time offenders but I would have expected it to apply only to the first unpaid crossing and then to be stung for the full penalty for the second.

So a bit of a bonus there.
A plug for the online account and £10 automatic top up which gives me the discount, saves me the hassle of remembering to manually top up and provides a statement for my expenses :lol:

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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:26

roadtester wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:10
A couple of weeks ago I did a return trip to Surrey on a Sunday morning and forgot to pay the charge for the crossing.

I thought I had a paid crossing in hand from a previous return trip when I went home clockwise rather than anti-clockwise, and then clean forgot to pay for the second crossing when I got home.

Anyway, it turns out that my memory was faulty and I didn't have a paid crossing in hand, so I actually failed to pay for both crossings. However the Dart charge people are letting me just pay the standard crossing charge of £2.50 for both crossings. I've read before that they tend to take this lenient approach with first-time offenders but I would have expected it to apply only to the first unpaid crossing and then to be stung for the full penalty for the second.

So a bit of a bonus there.
This rather conflicts with the sensationalised howls of revenue raising off poor addled forgetful people that we usually hear. Are you sure this reasonable approach happened? :wink:
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by roadtester » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:35

Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:26
roadtester wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:10
A couple of weeks ago I did a return trip to Surrey on a Sunday morning and forgot to pay the charge for the crossing.

I thought I had a paid crossing in hand from a previous return trip when I went home clockwise rather than anti-clockwise, and then clean forgot to pay for the second crossing when I got home.

Anyway, it turns out that my memory was faulty and I didn't have a paid crossing in hand, so I actually failed to pay for both crossings. However the Dart charge people are letting me just pay the standard crossing charge of £2.50 for both crossings. I've read before that they tend to take this lenient approach with first-time offenders but I would have expected it to apply only to the first unpaid crossing and then to be stung for the full penalty for the second.

So a bit of a bonus there.
This rather conflicts with the sensationalised howls of revenue raising off poor addled forgetful people that we usually hear. Are you sure this reasonable approach happened? :wink:
Yep - all true!

I think this is the right approach and one that the private parking gangsters should learn from - you can massively increase the degree of public acceptance for charging if you behave reasonably with people who fall more towards the innocent/forgetful end of the scale and who didn't set out to avoid the charge deliberately.

Unfortunately the ****hole Mr Loophole tendency, who attempt to wriggle out of paying even when it's a fair cop have probably made them go hardline, meaning less leniency for everyone else, even if they have a reasonable case.
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by roadtester » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:48

RichardA35 wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:17
roadtester wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:10
A couple of weeks ago I did a return trip to Surrey on a Sunday morning and forgot to pay the charge for the crossing.

I thought I had a paid crossing in hand from a previous return trip when I went home clockwise rather than anti-clockwise, and then clean forgot to pay for the second crossing when I got home.

Anyway, it turns out that my memory was faulty and I didn't have a paid crossing in hand, so I actually failed to pay for both crossings. However the Dart charge people are letting me just pay the standard crossing charge of £2.50 for both crossings. I've read before that they tend to take this lenient approach with first-time offenders but I would have expected it to apply only to the first unpaid crossing and then to be stung for the full penalty for the second.

So a bit of a bonus there.
A plug for the online account and £10 automatic top up which gives me the discount, saves me the hassle of remembering to manually top up and provides a statement for my expenses :lol:
Yes - think I'll have to give it a go, now I've used up the margin of leniency!
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Berk
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Berk » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57

I don’t need to auto top-up. The system just charges me each time, per individual trip. :)

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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by fras » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:04

I post advice on 'Pepipoo.com' in the decrim PCNs section, and the DART people are very reasonable when people forget, far better than councils who are only interested in the money. They do recognise the difference between people who forget or are unfamiliar with the system, and those who are just "trying it on". There have been one or two cases where people have actually set up a top-up autopay account, but seem not to have done it correctly. To their surprise, they then get a PCN, but DART have always cancelled these and taken the crossing fee once contact has been made and the account made good..

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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Alderpoint » Thu Jul 18, 2019 14:37

Been visiting in site in Kent over the last few months and have used the Dartford crossing a number of times. All the VMS approaching the crossing and after it in both directions now show warnings/reminders of the charge.

After one of my recent crossings, a week later a penalty charge arrived: I had paid for it but my fingers must have been suffering from dyslexia as I managed to transpose two digits of my reg_no. I appealed and a few weeks later I got a letter back saying they'd waived the charge but I was a naughty boy and don't do it again.

Within my appeal, I pointed out that on the government check mot/tax sites, when you put in your reg_no it comes back with details of your vehicle and asks you to confirm it is correct - but the Dart Charge site did no such validation.

Came through again this morning. Went to pay the charge a few hours later, and ... on entering my reg_no, it came back with the make/model/colour of vehicle and asked me to confirm! Well done to them for implementing it so quickly.

(Yes I know it's probably been in the works for months.)
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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by Moore_O » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:02

Alderpoint wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 14:37
Within my appeal, I pointed out that on the government check mot/tax sites, when you put in your reg_no it comes back with details of your vehicle and asks you to confirm it is correct - but the Dart Charge site did no such validation.

Came through again this morning. Went to pay the charge a few hours later, and ... on entering my reg_no, it came back with the make/model/colour of vehicle and asked me to confirm! Well done to them for implementing it so quickly.

(Yes I know it's probably been in the works for months.)
I could have sworn it has always done this check (I always chuckle because apparently my Citroen is 'grey' when in fact it's light blue... except now the paint is slowly peeling off the roof revealing primer).

I set up an account after I forgot to pay once. They let me off the fine then, too - because it was the first time I'd bothered them.

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Re: Dartford Crossing - Free Flow Charging

Post by A303Chris » Fri Sep 06, 2019 09:47

This came into my in box today from Gov.Uk stating the free-flow road user charging scheme at the Dartford-Thurrock Crossing, will remain in force indefinitely.

So was the original free flow scheme just on a temporary order, which would be a bit perverse as all the toll barriers were removed under it. What would of happened if the permanent order failed, build the toll barriers again? I know it is a hypothetical question :D
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