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odlum wrote: ↑Fri Nov 09, 2012 16:27
I notice on new motorways in Eastern Europe some are using concrete slab surfaces. It makes me wonder why in the UK and Ireland don't we do this? Is it more expensive? Bumpier surface?
I would have thought concrete had far more longevity than tarmac which would cut the cost of maintenance long term.
I have always been curious why we don't use concrete.
I am still traumatised by the experience of being driven up the A12 from London to Harwich in 1988.
Concrete is absolutely horrendous to drive on. The noise! The vibration!!
I don't have any dental fillings, but I'd imagine that people who do need a costly visit to the dentist after prolongued exposure to driving on concrete!
I used to make numerous trips to see my grandparents across the M69. That had a concrete surface, but it always seemed reasonably smooth apart from surface noise. I believe they’ve covered it with asphalt now.
The noise is one huge drawback of concrete. The M54 is often louder than the radio! Same goes for the A50, especially in the area between the A500 and the Bamford Cityscape. Furthermore I often feel doubtful of the grip on concrete when riding the motorbike.
Truckdriver wrote: ↑Wed Aug 29, 2018 09:15
The noise is one huge drawback of concrete. The M54 is often louder than the radio! Same goes for the A50, especially in the area between the A500 and the Bamford Cityscape. Furthermore I often feel doubtful of the grip on concrete when riding the motorbike.
Seconded re the M54, it's a relief travelling westbound when J3 is reached and a blacktop surface takes over. Sadly, eastbound is still all concrete from J5 to J2.
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I notice I commented on the M90 in this topic back in 2012. I was delighted to note, when driving the M90 last month, that the last of the concrete sections are now gone.
Truckdriver wrote: ↑Wed Aug 29, 2018 09:15
The noise is one huge drawback of concrete. The M54 is often louder than the radio! Same goes for the A50, especially in the area between the A500 and the Bamford Cityscape. Furthermore I often feel doubtful of the grip on concrete when riding the motorbike.
Seconded re the M54, it's a relief travelling westbound when J3 is reached and a blacktop surface takes over. Sadly, eastbound is still all concrete from J5 to J2.
The greatest torment any road surface can give, is when it comprises long sections of concrete interspersed with short bits of tarmac (e.g. on a viaduct):
Potholes ate my car wrote: ↑Wed Aug 29, 2018 09:52
I notice I commented on the M90 in this topic back in 2012. I was delighted to note, when driving the M90 last month, that the last of the concrete sections are now gone.
Hidden from view
You don’t have to dig deep to find it... about 35-40mm.
Every time the Brechin bypass has a lane coned off (it happens every summer, or at least it seems to) I hope that the bullet has finally been bitten and the whole thing will be surfaced with tarmac.
But no, the cones disappear and its just more piecemeal hole filling.
Potholes ate my car wrote: ↑Wed Aug 29, 2018 09:52
I notice I commented on the M90 in this topic back in 2012. I was delighted to note, when driving the M90 last month, that the last of the concrete sections are now gone.
Hidden from view
You don’t have to dig deep to find it... about 35-40mm.
Ah yes, good point - as long as they remain hidden I'll be happy!
in Mid-August, we took our friends down to Fishbourne Roman Palace and the Tangmere Airfield Museum (two great places to visit, BTW, although - from Winchester - the second venue involves a complete navigation of the wretched Chichester bypass).
The 1990s A27 Emsworth/Havant bypass (which brought high-quality fast road access to the edge of the Chichester bypass), was constructed using what I believe the authorities described at the time as "fast concrete train" (???). The subsequent re-coating of the concrete was fine, with a two-inch layer of tarmac.
Unfortunately, the tarmac is now popping off regularly, leading to an entertaining steering exercise called "dodge the pothole".
Mike
Mike Hindson-Evans. Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
The dreadful intermittent "big dipper" concrete sections of the northern M25, J25-24 past Enfield/Potters Bar, principally westbound, have at last had attention. Vehicles ahead could all be seen bottoming out on their suspension at the worst points, and the road surface immediately beyond was scarred with scrape marks from vehicle undersides. It used to always have a broken exhaust or two on the side as well. Never touched (although widened) during the ALR widening works. Now it has been substantially patched, in asphalt. I wonder if they had an accident attributed to it.
Last edited by WHBM on Fri Aug 31, 2018 15:49, edited 1 time in total.
The m1 from junction 42 to 48 they have got rid of most of it but where the concrete is that surface is awful and like some one else said they have bits of tarmac in between so you think you can relax a little bit until you drive over a bit of concrete then you shout when will this end. well i have
The m1 from junction 42 to 48 they have got rid of most of it but where the concrete is that surface is awful and like some one else said they have bits of tarmac in between so you think you can relax a little bit until you drive over a bit of concrete then you shout when will this end. well i have
I do remember when this section opened back in 1999 it was all over the local news as people in Garforth didn’t particularly want the M1 in the first place then got a massive shock at the extreme noise from the concrete, you will notice the remaining concrete sections are mainly left in the cutting sections where the noise is more retained.
I don’t mind concrete yeast it’s noisy but the concrete bits of the M1 that opened in 1999 are like new compared to the nearby tarmac sections which are resurfaced very often.
Bertiebus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 06:08
But no, the cones disappear and its just more piecemeal hole filling.
Lane 1 northbound in particular is getting pretty bad.
There’s no leeway in the height of the concrete central barrier. Brechin has a narrow centre reserve, an overlay pushes the barrier out of spec.
An Inlay reduces the cover to the steel reinforcement and it’s hard as hell to mill out.
What’s the estimated design life for a concrete surface? I seem to recall 30 years being mentioned. What’s meant to happen after that - major reconstruction?
Bertiebus wrote: ↑Thu Aug 30, 2018 06:08
But no, the cones disappear and its just more piecemeal hole filling.
Lane 1 northbound in particular is getting pretty bad.
There’s no leeway in the height of the concrete central barrier. Brechin has a narrow centre reserve, an overlay pushes the barrier out of spec.
An Inlay reduces the cover to the steel reinforcement and it’s hard as hell to mill out.
Unless my memory is playing awful tricks on me, the concrete barrier wasn't installed 'that' long ago (i.e. sometime in the past couple of decades). If so, it would seem to have been very shortsighted for this not to have been factored in to the design? After all, they would have known that the surface would have needed replacement or at least significant upgrading at some point.
Granted the Brechin bypass doesn't see the kind of traffic levels that, for example, the M25 does (and having gone back to my former 'home' recently, I am profoundly grateful that it doesn't), but no road surface lasts forever.
orudge wrote: ↑Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:20
Lane 1 northbound in particular is getting pretty bad.
There’s no leeway in the height of the concrete central barrier. Brechin has a narrow centre reserve, an overlay pushes the barrier out of spec.
An Inlay reduces the cover to the steel reinforcement and it’s hard as hell to mill out.
Unless my memory is playing awful tricks on me, the concrete barrier wasn't installed 'that' long ago (i.e. sometime in the past couple of decades). If so, it would seem to have been very shortsighted for this not to have been factored in to the design? After all, they would have known that the surface would have needed replacement or at least significant upgrading at some point.
Granted the Brechin bypass doesn't see the kind of traffic levels that, for example, the M25 does (and having gone back to my former 'home' recently, I am profoundly grateful that it doesn't), but no road surface lasts forever.
The concrete carriageway and concrete barrier were all built as the same widening scheme.
Both carriageways were slipformed, then the barrier up the centre.
It only opened in 1994, so is still fairly young.
Owain wrote: ↑Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:31
The greatest torment any road surface can give, is when it comprises long sections of concrete interspersed with short bits of tarmac (e.g. on a viaduct):
The A50 is a swine for that - heading towards the A500/M6 you want to try and hear to radio to know which of the A500 or M6 is most screwed today and struggle to hear the radio over the road noise, aside from the very short sections over every bridge, which are quite frequent.
I used to be quite a fan of concrete surfaces, on the principle of hard wearing = long life = less roadworks = less delays for me, but after having driven along the M25 section by Cobham Services, I've changed my mind . . . I do have a few teeth left . . .
