Concrete on motorways - why don't we use it?

[firefly]

So what are these bitumen-filled joints then (taking the quickest example I could find and know) which go ker-thump ker-thump as you drive along the road.

These joints are predetermined breaking points which are cut in a few days after the concrete was laid.

That doesn't necessarily apply to the linked example though.

[novaecosse]

So what are these bitumen-filled joints then (taking the quickest example I could find and know) which go ker-thump ker-thump as you drive along the road.

These joints are predetermined breaking points which are cut in a few days after the concrete was laid.

That doesn't necessarily apply to the linked example though.

There are a few different types of concrete carriageway.
A90 Brechin Bypass is continuously reinforced so only has "day" joints. ie where they ended one production run and started the next. It has no cut joints.
M90 at Kinross is jointed concrete, and only has plain dowel bars between the panels, there is no other reinforcement.

[Ben302]

And yet, I am surprised this is not used more often.

The stretches on the A13 between Wennington and the M25 and the A50 near Toyota Island seem to be built using this stuff - and are quieter than some other concrete roads.

[Joe_Flyover]

The noise has never bothered me, id be interested in a cost comparison though.

[Potholes ate my car]

I hate driving on the concrete section of the M90. Every time we're on it, my wife asks if there's something wrong with the car because of the noise, and I remind her it's because of the surface. It's always a great relief to get back on the asphalt.

[Trebeck]

I hate driving on the concrete section of the M90. Every time we're on it, my wife asks if there's something wrong with the car because of the noise, and I remind her it's because of the surface. It's always a great relief to get back on the asphalt.

First time I drove it, I pulled off at the next junction as I thought I had a puncture.

Have grown up with concrete roads in the town (Newtownabbey) but had never saw them on a motorway.

[Gareth Thomas]

The M20 was concrete all the way from Junction 8 to Junction 13. Horrible to drive on, just that screeching noise (with a brief respite over each bridge!). Junctions 9-10 were the first section to be resurfaced, before the rest was several years ago. I remember thinking, "Thank God!".

Although, when using the M27/M271 stretches with concrete, it does bring back memories of "going home" (once we were on the concrete section past Maidstone, we knew there wasn't much longer to go!).

Was concrete ever used on single carriageway A/B roads? I can't think of any locally (East Kent) but perhaps elsewhere?

[WHBM]

The noise has never bothered me, id be interested in a cost comparison though.

Cost comparisons. One for me I suppose.

See my earlier post. Cost advantage for one or the other always was (until new build concrete stopped) governed by the relative distances of the material supply points, and the amount of haulage required from there. Bear in mind that, concrete or asphalt, the majority of the mix is aggregate, and virgin stone has increased notably in price in recent years.

[haymansafc]

I have no issue with concrete surfaces as long as they're done properly.

The end of the M56 from Stoak to Dunkirk is concrete, but it's been retextured in the last year, reducing the noise a little.

Indeed. Over the years though little bits and pieces have been replaced quite roughly with tarmac. It's quite patchy and scruffy looking compared to what it used to be. Interestingly the new eastbound on-slip from the A5117, which was actually the start of the old eastbound carriageway still retains a chunk of it’s original concrete surface. I often wonder why it was never replaced, considering either side of it is new surfacing from when the alignment changed.

In the same area, the southernmost section of the M53 (south of the M56) remains almost entirely concrete. Generally speaking whilst there is the odd pothole (I can think of two nasty ones, one on each carriageway in lane one), I think it's actually in decent condition for it's age. Probably one of the better examples left on the network to take a guess. I don't personally find it that noisy . Travelling north, as soon as you get towards crossing under the M56 it goes back to tarmac. This section, a good couple of hundred yards long, undulates and cambers/pitches terribly compared to what you've just left… Going from the 'woosh' sound of the tarmac, you're confronted with a 'growl / roar' of aspalt. Very old and worn out asphalt admittidly (this is the M53 after all...).

A good point over the road markings on concrete. They are difficult to see in wet conditions and they do wear out notably quicker. Whilst those on the M53 were re-done about six months ago, they were more or less non-existent for several years prior to that.

[Duncan]

Was concrete ever used on single carriageway A/B roads? I can't think of any locally (East Kent) but perhaps elsewhere?

Ilminster bypass? I don't think many West Country sabristi have posted yet. RichardA35? David Brown? I certainly can't think of any in Sussex. Water authority roads were often concrete for some reason though, and usually heavily jointed. Whether cost was the main consideration, or it was thought to be harder wearing should the reservoir or whatever flood over I don't know.

[kevjs]

The A50 (Doveridge bypass section) is late 90s, that is concrete. As others have said it is noisy, I can remember locals putting up banners protesting at the noise the surface caused.

When driving on concrete the constant changes to tarmac on the bridges just make the noise seem worse.

I can't wait for the bridges and the two seconds of respite they give you. The thuwmp-thuwmp-thuwmp-thuwmp-thuwmp-thuwmp-thuwmp of the A50 does my head in - I always think I have a puncture when I hit that and then remember it's just the bloody awful surface which seams to be getting worse by the year.

[nowster]

The A494/A55 between Buckley and Northop Hall used to be concrete, but was resurfaced over five years ago.

[Big Nick]

There's a good couple of miles of concrete single-carriageway roads in the Lake District, just to teh west of Shap. These were built by the Manchester Corporation Water Authority to link the Haweswater and Wet Sleddale Reservoirs. I suspect the pipes run beneath the road too.

[Mettie]

Was concrete ever used on single carriageway A/B roads? I can't think of any locally (East Kent) but perhaps elsewhere?

The A47 between Wendling and Scarning in Norfolk is concrete, and IMO the end of the section can't come quick enough. It has had the cracks repaired so often that in parts it is like driving down the old railway line that the road replaced.....

[Sou'wester]

Ilminster bypass (A303) is still 90% concrete.

[trigpoint]

The A50 (Doveridge bypass section) is late 90s, that is concrete. As others have said it is noisy, I can remember locals putting up banners protesting at the noise the surface caused.

When driving on concrete the constant changes to tarmac on the bridges just make the noise seem worse.

I can't wait for the bridges and the two seconds of respite they give you.

Thats what I mean, you get the respite, but that makes the concrete seen worse.


Drove along the A483 at the weekend. North of Wrexham I was thinking of this thread, as I could feel the tell tale signs of concrete under the tarmac. The constant bumps as you went over each slab.

Then at the border, it became concrete again.

Much of the M54 is awful concrete as well.

[RichardA35]

Was concrete ever used on single carriageway A/B roads? I can't think of any locally (East Kent) but perhaps elsewhere?

Ilminster bypass? I don't think many West Country sabristi have posted yet. RichardA35? David Brown? I certainly can't think of any in Sussex. Water authority roads were often concrete for some reason though, and usually heavily jointed. Whether cost was the main consideration, or it was thought to be harder wearing should the reservoir or whatever flood over I don't know.

OK, OK, quick notes on concrete roads as I remember them.
Most older concrete roads were jointed unreinforced (URC) built with fixed form trains with dowel bars inserted automatically and the joints initially sawn at 5 or 6m centres after the initial setting of the concrete (about 8 hours). This accounts for most of the older motorway sections which have now been overlaid M25 SW quadrant, M20, M42 Southern section, Ilminster bypass.
A different set of URC roads was laid by slipforming where the dowel bars were pre installed on small cages and plastic crack inducer was forced into the wet concrete and the concrete revibrated around it. The joint could then be sawn to full depth at a later date. The concrete displaced by this insertion was said by many to cause a small rise in the surface at the joint and that the ride quality was worse than the fixed form trains. This method was pioneered by Alfred McAlpine on the M27/M271, Hawarden Bypass, M54, M42 Kingsbury, A483 Gresford, A27 Havant Chichester.

Continuously Reinforced Roadbase was used on the M40 northern extension - this is CRCP with less reinforcement and little texture.
Continuously Reinforced Pavement was used on DBFO sections such as A35 Tolpuddle, A30 Honiton, Cirencester Bypass, A1-M1 link Leeds, A50 Doveridge without joints and generally maintenance free apart from the occasional burst out. In capital cost the rates per sq. m were generally comparable at the end of the 90's between CRCP and blacktop. As traffic noise became more of an issue whisper concrete was trialled on the A50 Hilton and A13 Wennington. This is a subset of CRCP which has high PSV aggregate in the concrete or upper layer depending on technique. CRCP can now only be used with an asphalt overlay such as on the M6 Toll.

For single carriageway roads, the delivery of concrete to the paver is done from the side so the road needs to be sufficient width to allow a truck alongside his the paver. I have seen it done one lane at once on the dual carriageway A40 Raglan Usk but the Ilminster bypass is probably the narrowest practical width to be done in this way. I have seen a narrower road slipformed but this was fed from the end and was logistically very difficult.
Hope this helps.

[Chris5156]

There's a good couple of miles of concrete single-carriageway roads in the Lake District, just to teh west of Shap. These were built by the Manchester Corporation Water Authority to link the Haweswater and Wet Sleddale Reservoirs. I suspect the pipes run beneath the road too.

Wow, you're right - it's quite obvious which road this is from a map, as it's the one with lots of straight lines and smooth curves that are very suggestive of a road built in the 20th century!

I suspect it's still owned by a water authority, and isn't technically a public highway, as it has a 30mph limit signposted at the end, and terminates with a fantastic old circular STOP sign.

[SarahJ]

The 'estate' I live on was built in the late 40's and was built with concrete roads. Some have been tarmac'd over, but some are still concrete, and a few where the tarmac was a tad thin the concrete is coming back through.

I used to hate that bit of the A27 west of Chi', dull, boring and loud. Much better these days. The M42 used to always make me want to pee, when you got back on to tarmac the urge went away.

Anyway, I read, somewhere, many moons ago, that for motorway building where it was possible, that they went for a 50/50 split between tarmac and concrete to keep the concrete lobby happy. It was also noted that due to land movement issues it was next to impossible to use tarmac in places such as the north east. But dont quote me on that!!!!..

SJ

[Big L]

More concrete