A1(M) Leeming - Barton

[brombeer]

We have never really done long distance signposting in the UK, so you end up with signs saying M1 North Luton, and then places like Scotch Corner and/or Whetherby being the only destinations shown until you pass them. One day there might be the thrill of seeing a sign at the start of the M6 saying Glasgow, the M4 saying Cardiff, the M5 Exeter.
Now here is how you do a road sign https://goo.gl/maps/DjKCqRJjZHm tho' there are some massive ones shown in Russia. which way shall we go here? https://goo.gl/maps/2XqUXHJmHQ72

Poland has also been a bit ridiculous with small towns that happen to be a road's terminus being signposted from the other side of the country. I'd rather take Germany or France as an example for distance signs and when to first mention a town. Though France's vast empty spaces resulted in a number of really high distances signposted for lack of something better - that would never be near relevant anywhere in the UK.

[stu531]

It's interesting to see the various new signs on the main approaches to Scotch Corner's Junction 53. I am glad that Leeds is now flagged up with Wetherby on both the southbound A1(M) and also the south-eastbound A66.
Ideally I would like to see Newcastle signposted from the M1 at J42 ( going north-east onto the A1(M) ) and Leeds from the A1(M) at J65 heading south.

Roadmeister 17.

It has been mentioned before, but it is bonkers that Scotch Corner is the major designation up the A1(M) north. Maybe this sign shows a potential change to be made. All the way from J42, as you say, needs to have that signage. I think having it signed as The NORTH EAST makes sense from that point, with York and Wetherby mileages accompanied by Darlington, Teeside and possibly Newcastle. It may be worth having a midpoint too such as Northallerton (which is administratively important).

There's something about the fact that long mileages on sign posts indicates that you've a fair distance to go until the next big place, which heightens the perception of 'a long drive' and boredom.

[Glenn A]

It's interesting to see the various new signs on the main approaches to Scotch Corner's Junction 53. I am glad that Leeds is now flagged up with Wetherby on both the southbound A1(M) and also the south-eastbound A66.
Ideally I would like to see Newcastle signposted from the M1 at J42 ( going north-east onto the A1(M) ) and Leeds from the A1(M) at J65 heading south.

Roadmeister 17.

It has been mentioned before, but it is bonkers that Scotch Corner is the major designation up the A1(M) north. Maybe this sign shows a potential change to be made. All the way from J42, as you say, needs to have that signage. I think having it signed as The NORTH EAST makes sense from that point, with York and Wetherby mileages accompanied by Darlington, Teeside and possibly Newcastle. It may be worth having a midpoint too such as Northallerton (which is administratively important).

There's something about the fact that long mileages on sign posts indicates that you've a fair distance to go until the next big place, which heightens the perception of 'a long drive' and boredom.

A1 The North, The South, will always stick in my mind from the time I first noticed and understood road signs.

[Berk]

It's interesting to see the various new signs on the main approaches to Scotch Corner's Junction 53. I am glad that Leeds is now flagged up with Wetherby on both the southbound A1(M) and also the south-eastbound A66.
Ideally I would like to see Newcastle signposted from the M1 at J42 ( going north-east onto the A1(M) ) and Leeds from the A1(M) at J65 heading south.

Roadmeister 17.

It has been mentioned before, but it is bonkers that Scotch Corner is the major designation up the A1(M) north. Maybe this sign shows a potential change to be made. All the way from J42, as you say, needs to have that signage. I think having it signed as The NORTH EAST makes sense from that point, with York and Wetherby mileages accompanied by Darlington, Teeside and possibly Newcastle. It may be worth having a midpoint too such as Northallerton (which is administratively important).

There's something about the fact that long mileages on sign posts indicates that you've a fair distance to go until the next big place, which heightens the perception of 'a long drive' and boredom.

Not so much boredom for me, but because I don’t drive with a sat-nav, I like to see frequent updates, so I can see how much progress I’ve made - and also whether I’m getting closer to the junction where I need to turn off.

Not having this info makes me rather anxious...

[stu531]

Well, there's actually something to be said there. If you're not familiar with the route, you're probably on a SatNav/GMaps/Waze and don't need to know mileages, or you are familiar with the route, and you know how far it is to relevant junctions or your end point. What you might need, though, is affirmation that you're facing the right compass direction or you're heading in the general direction of a large town.

[KeithW]

It has been mentioned before, but it is bonkers that Scotch Corner is the major designation up the A1(M) north. Maybe this sign shows a potential change to be made. All the way from J42, as you say, needs to have that signage. I think having it signed as The NORTH EAST makes sense from that point, with York and Wetherby mileages accompanied by Darlington, Teeside and possibly Newcastle. It may be worth having a midpoint too such as Northallerton (which is administratively important).

There's something about the fact that long mileages on sign posts indicates that you've a fair distance to go until the next big place, which heightens the perception of 'a long drive' and boredom.

The simple fact is of course if you are heading up the A66 from Scotch Corner, which a lot of traffic does, then the ultimate destination is NOT the North East but the North West. Scotch Corner is NOT a destination but it is an important nexus in the road network and has been so since at least Roman times when the Roman Legionaries fought the Brigantes for control of it. It is where you decide to either take the low road to Scotland (the A1) or the high road (the A66/A74(M)/ M74

As for the A66 the one thing you cannot say about it is that it is boring. Oh and if you have reached Scotch Corner and want to head for Teesside you already missed your turn which is here !

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.14299 ... authuser=0

[stu531]

Yes indeed - I was suggesting that the Teeside signage appeared after you leave Leeds area, not after the A168 split

I take your point about the A66, but The NORTH EAST is generally the destination of most traffic heading up the A1(M). I think the AADT is 15k vs 50k on the A66 versus the A1(M) to the north. My point is that the NORTH EAST is generally understood by folk generally as the Tyne Tees area, which is the next set of conurbations to the north of Leeds.

I like your point about the Brigantes tribes but I'm not sure it's widely considered by most drivers these days

[Paul7755]

“The place where you turn off for Penrith” is a lot harder to fit on the signs than the reasonably familiar “Scotch Corner”. Even if unusual to have a junction as a primary destination it doesn’t really mean it’s wrong, it’s just different.

[KeithW]

Yes indeed - I was suggesting that the Teeside signage appeared after you leave Leeds area, not after the A168 split

I take your point about the A66, but The NORTH EAST is generally the destination of most traffic heading up the A1(M). I think the AADT is 15k vs 50k on the A66 versus the A1(M) to the north. My point is that the NORTH EAST is generally understood by folk generally as the Tyne Tees area, which is the next set of conurbations to the north of Leeds.

I like your point about the Brigantes tribes but I'm not sure it's widely considered by most drivers these days

The Teesside signs appear BEFORE the A168 split as one would expect and believe it or not there are other opportunites to keep going North after Scotch Corner. My favoutite route is up the A68 from Corbridge to Edinburgh. As a driver you know that if you are on the A1 heading for the North you are on the right track - as long as we decide to let the southern softies in of course Morpeth, Alnwick and Bamburgh are all in the North East but I diven't think ah would send the lads via Middlesbrough, Hartlepool and Jarrow tha knows.

All joking aside Scotch Corner is still an important decision point where you choose the Pennine/West Coast route towards Strathclyde or to press on via to Edinburgh and the Forth crossing. Nothing has really changed about that for 2 millenia.

[stu531]

All joking aside Scotch Corner is still an important decision point where you choose the Pennine/West Coast route towards Strathclyde or to press on via to Edinburgh and the Forth crossing. Nothing has really changed about that for 2 millenia.

Indeed... I think it really comes down to inconsistencies around the country as to what's signed or not. After Leeds on the M1, it's really just Wetherby and York - and this one just has Wetherby. It's pretty useless. At that point I think it needs to have York (I'd argue if even Wetherby is that important), Teeside, Darlo, and possibly Newcastle. Maybe include Harrogate (though of course I'm biased there). At a stretch, Penrith.

In fact after Dishforth heading north, I think that marking Darlington, Newcastle, and (A66) Penrith makes sense.

[Glenn A]

It has been mentioned before, but it is bonkers that Scotch Corner is the major designation up the A1(M) north. Maybe this sign shows a potential change to be made. All the way from J42, as you say, needs to have that signage. I think having it signed as The NORTH EAST makes sense from that point, with York and Wetherby mileages accompanied by Darlington, Teeside and possibly Newcastle. It may be worth having a midpoint too such as Northallerton (which is administratively important).

There's something about the fact that long mileages on sign posts indicates that you've a fair distance to go until the next big place, which heightens the perception of 'a long drive' and boredom.

The simple fact is of course if you are heading up the A66 from Scotch Corner, which a lot of traffic does, then the ultimate destination is NOT the North East but the North West. Scotch Corner is NOT a destination but it is an important nexus in the road network and has been so since at least Roman times when the Roman Legionaries fought the Brigantes for control of it. It is where you decide to either take the low road to Scotland (the A1) or the high road (the A66/A74(M)/ M74

As for the A66 the one thing you cannot say about it is that it is boring. Oh and if you have reached Scotch Corner and want to head for Teesside you already missed your turn which is here !

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.14299 ... authuser=0

So long as the weather is good and there aren't too many lorries around, the A66 is an interesting drive, particularly the long drag from Stainmore to Appleby, where you drop nearly 1500 feet.

[Glenn A]

I was at Catterick yesterday for the racing and was having a look at the A1(M). It is impressive, and Catterick Central Interchange and the motorway is a vast improvement on what came before. However, the signage is confusing as you leave the racecourse, where the bridge and the derelict hotel is, as there is a still a sign reading A1 The North and Scotch Corner, but go further into Brompton on Swale, the signs for the A1 North have been patched over and there is no reference to Scotch Corner, only to Richmond and Teesside.
Actually, being aware of what has gone on, I did try out the LAR from the old Catterick North junction, which is stopped up, to Scotch Corner. Decent enough road, but why is the temporary 30 mph limit there, when a little used road like this should be at least 40. Also interesting to see the derelict Travel Lodge, which probably has been badly afffected by the A1(M), and the remains of the old filling station near Scotch Corner with its short entry and exit, and imagiging how hair raising it must have been to join the old A1 from here.

[NICK 647063]

Also interesting to see the derelict Travel Lodge, which probably has been badly afffected by the A1(M), and the remains of the old filling station near Scotch Corner with its short entry and exit, and imagiging how hair raising it must have been to join the old A1 from here.

The travelodge which is known as Skeeby is actually still open, you must have just looked at the old little chef which is right at the front of the site and looks a mess.

[Glenn A]

Also interesting to see the derelict Travel Lodge, which probably has been badly afffected by the A1(M), and the remains of the old filling station near Scotch Corner with its short entry and exit, and imagiging how hair raising it must have been to join the old A1 from here.

The travelodge which is known as Skeeby is actually still open, you must have just looked at the old little chef which is right at the front of the site and looks a mess.

Possibly, but when you have a large SUV up your back that thinks the temporary speed limit is a waste of time, then you won't think much about this.
Also, when is the temporary limit going on the LAR, as it seems pointless due to the low volume of traffic?

[wrinkly]

Also, when is the temporary limit going on the LAR, as it seems pointless due to the low volume of traffic?

I assume that some obscure aspect of the works is unfinished and the limit will go when it is.

[Glenn A]

Also, when is the temporary limit going on the LAR, as it seems pointless due to the low volume of traffic?

I assume that some obscure aspect of the works is unfinished and the limit will go when it is.

Completely ignored by people who use it, but actually a good road, in the same way I drove from Gretna to Carlisle( Parkhouse) on what is mostly an LAR and found the driving very good and nearly as fast as the M6.

[Berk]

Google StreetView has now been updated. Coverage is now available, both on the new A1M, and A6055 (during construction).

[NICK 647063]

I was up that way the other day and although the resurfacing scheme runs from J50 to around the Burneston area it at present stops quite a way short of J51, however I did note that northbound prior to the Leeming lane drop lane 1 was closed and the top layer of tarmac removed ready for resurfacing, surely then this lane drop is going? This new surface needs new markings so that’s quite simple and then just an updated overhead sign and that lane drop is no more! Let’s hope....

[GrahamD]

I have finally driven on the new section (southbound only) this weekend for the first time. So is the A1(M) section officially complete? There were still a few temporary 50 signs around the Barton junction with no NSL sign following them.

Also the Barton junction (used to be J56) has no junction number displayed, looks like the old signs have been patched over with the word 'Barton' in larger letters. Is this junction getting renumbered as J54 would be more logical as its so close to J53 Scotch Corner.

Sorry if this has been discussed, this is a very large thread to keep up with.

[Rob590]

I have finally driven on the new section (southbound only) this weekend for the first time. So is the A1(M) section officially complete? There were still a few temporary 50 signs around the Barton junction with no NSL sign following them.

The mainline is completed but works are ongoing at the Scotch Corner roundabout (I think? They were still going on when I last used it a couple of weeks ago). The 50 restriction around Barton is because of a short section of damaged central reservation following an accident a few weeks ago; I think this is being fixed later this week.