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MJN wrote:In most cases you have space between the roundabout and the cycle path to stop and give way so you don't have to look out for everyone at once, but of course there isn't always space for this. I would suspect that motor vehicle speeds are already necessarily low in these cases so they can more easily give way on the roundabout.
The image I linked to provides stacking space for one car between the cycle lane and the roundabout proper, but if that wasn't available then it would have to be designed so as to provide just a single give-way, otherwise cars would end up blocking the cycle lane. This will happen in any case with lorries and buses.
A further thought is the large land take required for this type of junction which means it will rarely be possible to retrofit it to existing roundabouts.
“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A. Heinlein
A303Paul wrote:
What would best reduce cycling fatalities is for cyclists (and motorcycles) to be prohibited from overtaking other vehicles on the inside in slow moving traffic unless they are in a segregated lane
Sure, as long as there is also no overtaking of cyclists unless the vehicle is fully in the other lane, meaning if there's a cycle lane, ok, otherwise, you have to be fully across the white lines, seems fair.
and all cyclists and motorcyclists to be forced to have a helmet with personal registration number endorsed on it front and rear so that traffic cameras and policemen can enforce them and motorists and pedestrians can report them for dangerous behaviour. The helmet would be registered by DVLA in the same way as a vehicle is.
A303Paul wrote:
What would best reduce cycling fatalities is for cyclists (and motorcycles) to be prohibited from overtaking other vehicles on the inside in slow moving traffic unless they are in a segregated lane
Sure, as long as there is also no overtaking of cyclists unless the vehicle is fully in the other lane, meaning if there's a cycle lane, ok, otherwise, you have to be fully across the white lines, seems fair.
and all cyclists and motorcyclists to be forced to have a helmet with personal registration number endorsed on it front and rear so that traffic cameras and policemen can enforce them and motorists and pedestrians can report them for dangerous behaviour. The helmet would be registered by DVLA in the same way as a vehicle is.
I would have no objections to this notion.
Or there could be compulsory wearing of a high visibility panel with the registration number so visibility would also be improved. Could be fastened to a rucksack if one is carried, visibility being the key concern rather than where worn.
As noted about four posts up the land take for a single lane roundabout is huge. ain addition the zebra crossings will mean that any pedestrian or cycle traffic will stop the flow completely.
My main problem is that these sort of crossings will need some sort of (very) special signage or markings to allow cyclists to have rights on the "zebra" crossing (which they do NOT have on the present type). This will be dangerous when such roundabouts are few and far between as people new to the type will not assume that the cyclists have any right of way.
If this sort of thing is required I would prefer button controlled light, however much more expensive they are.
phil gollin wrote:.
in addition the zebra crossings will mean that any pedestrian or cycle traffic will stop the flow completely.
But that's the whole point! Traditional roundabouts mean that any car traffic stops the flow of pedestrians and cyclists (on off-road paths) completely, and with a push-button system, a pedestrian can typically waste a minute or so waiting for the lights to change, a cyclist probably twice that (as they have to stop and get going again).
The Dutch think it's fairer to make a few drivers wait for 5-10 seconds instead, and redress a bit the dominance of motor traffic on the roads.
Push button lights for cyclists at crossings in the Netherlands are increasingly being replaced by loops, and increased green time is being given in a junction signal cycle for cyclists.
As was pointed out above, these roundabouts are shown to shorten waiting times for all users where there are relatively low/equal flows. They are also shown to be substantially safer than signalised junctions. Clear warning signs are often used in the Netherlands to indicate that motorised traffic must give way to bikes if this is considered unclear. I'm sure this could be tried as part of this project if need be.
crb11 wrote:
The Dutch think it's fairer to make a few drivers wait for 5-10 seconds instead, and redress a bit the dominance of motor traffic on the roads.
crb11 wrote:
The Dutch think it's fairer to make a few drivers wait for 5-10 seconds instead, and redress a bit the dominance of motor traffic on the roads.
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True, but there's still the problem as a driver of the three(!) points you have to yield. And the cyclist doesn't have to stop for one moment. Although as a cyclist myself, I always watch inside the car and try to see if the driver has seen me, especially when driving against the flow of the roundabout, which is legal in my example.
It's easier for a car to yield priority than it is for a bicycle. Currently on shared paths it's the bicycle which is expected to yield on multiple occasions when traffic on the main carriageway doesn't have to give way at all.
Chris5156 wrote:
The test layout used Dutch road markings - I hope any version used here would use British markings.
The example on this site is, er, close (if you ignore those god-awful arrows as well as some other bits).
Evidently, a wider circulatory plus spiralisation = 'turbo'.
This proposed turbo roundabout is close to where I live and I have to use it as a driver or cyclist regularly. This new layout is going to be interesting.
Like a number of people on this forum I have my doubts about the local drivers' ability to spot the revised layout and give cyclists priority where it is needed. That having been said, as a cyclist who is having to get in to the outer lane to go straight on at the moment (that is how the lanes are marked), the proposed layout does look better.
