Pointless motorway overhead messages

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trickstat
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

Post by trickstat »

Big Nick wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 17:47 On the M25 east before J26 - "EAST HERTS - REDUCE TRAVEL". Still busy though.
I presume those of us in Herts' other 9 districts have already reduced travel?
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Bryn666 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 15:04
Matthew wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 13:04 It's not cry wolf though, is it? Firstly it says "reports of" which means at least one person has called it to the Police or Highways England. Secondly, just because it's not seen by the poster, it doesn't mean it wasn't / isn't there.

It would be unwise to go back to "incident | slow down" without any specific message or, worst still, leave the VMS offline until confirmed.
Would "Cyclist reported" be a better wording than "Report of cyclist"? Genuine question, as I get why it's done but the wording has never sat right with me. Obviously difficult to fit anything meaningful on a 2 line gantry VMS, bit easier on a giant MS4 with pictogram.
Really on an MS4 we’d want a red triangle with a cycle inside it.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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I've seen similar coming off the M6 Toll. "WEST MIDS REDUCE TRAVEL", and "STAFFS REDUCE TRAVEL". Is it and order or an announcement. Pretty pointless, anyway.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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“Reduce travel” has been replaced with Tier 2 Stay Local, Tier 3 Stay Local, or Tier 4 Stay Home.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Bryn666 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 15:04
Matthew wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 13:04 It's not cry wolf though, is it? Firstly it says "reports of" which means at least one person has called it to the Police or Highways England. Secondly, just because it's not seen by the poster, it doesn't mean it wasn't / isn't there.

It would be unwise to go back to "incident | slow down" without any specific message or, worst still, leave the VMS offline until confirmed.
Would "Cyclist reported" be a better wording than "Report of cyclist"? Genuine question, as I get why it's done but the wording has never sat right with me. Obviously difficult to fit anything meaningful on a 2 line gantry VMS, bit easier on a giant MS4 with pictogram.
I've seen several "Reports of..." recently including Fire, Obstruction, Stranded vehicle etc. At least giving some detail tells you what to look out for. I prefer it rather than some random incident which may or may not effect you.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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This morning this sign was lit up with "Congestion at M6 J19 exit". Nothing south of there had anything similar. I was approximately where the green truck is when I saw the sign. I was waiting, in a perfectly normal everyday queue, to exit. At M6 J19.
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B4444
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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This sign, M3 south approaching J7, has been 'broken' for at least 2 years. You can see an attempt was made to investigate (at least 2 years ago) but obviously to no avail. How much do these things cost?
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Bryn666 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 15:04 Would "Cyclist reported" be a better wording than "Report of cyclist"?
No: the response might be "So what has this cyclist reported then?"
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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B4444 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 16:02 This sign, M3 south approaching J7, has been 'broken' for at least 2 years. You can see an attempt was made to investigate (at least 2 years ago) but obviously to no avail. How much do these things cost?
If that's the case report it to Highways England and you'll get a response back. Being broken for two years does sound excessive, particularly as it appears to be the more modern version of the MS2s type.
Opinion is purely my own and all those other exceptions and excuses.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Bryn666 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 15:04
Matthew wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 13:04 It's not cry wolf though, is it? Firstly it says "reports of" which means at least one person has called it to the Police or Highways England. Secondly, just because it's not seen by the poster, it doesn't mean it wasn't / isn't there.

It would be unwise to go back to "incident | slow down" without any specific message or, worst still, leave the VMS offline until confirmed.
Would "Cyclist reported" be a better wording than "Report of cyclist"? Genuine question, as I get why it's done but the wording has never sat right with me. Obviously difficult to fit anything meaningful on a 2 line gantry VMS, bit easier on a giant MS4 with pictogram.
Forgot to reply to this. Sorry Bryn.

"Report of" is singular, whereas "reported" could be a single or several sources. I take on board what you say about the two-line VMS (with the smallest sitting at 2 x 12 characters) but it's preferable to find a message that is consistent, regardless of type.
Opinion is purely my own and all those other exceptions and excuses.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Matthew wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 13:30
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 15:04
Matthew wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 13:04 It's not cry wolf though, is it? Firstly it says "reports of" which means at least one person has called it to the Police or Highways England. Secondly, just because it's not seen by the poster, it doesn't mean it wasn't / isn't there.

It would be unwise to go back to "incident | slow down" without any specific message or, worst still, leave the VMS offline until confirmed.
Would "Cyclist reported" be a better wording than "Report of cyclist"? Genuine question, as I get why it's done but the wording has never sat right with me. Obviously difficult to fit anything meaningful on a 2 line gantry VMS, bit easier on a giant MS4 with pictogram.
Forgot to reply to this. Sorry Bryn.

"Report of" is singular, whereas "reported" could be a single or several sources. I take on board what you say about the two-line VMS (with the smallest sitting at 2 x 12 characters) but it's preferable to find a message that is consistent, regardless of type.
That makes sense, thanks Matthew.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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The “REPORT OF [cyclist/pedestrian/animals etc.]” is relatively recent. IIRC, a few years ago standard practice was just to show “INCIDENT” until it is known exactly what it was. Then once confirmed it’s changed to “[cyclist/pedestrians/animals etc.] IN ROAD”.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Message this morning as I zoomed eastwards through M18 junction 2 at 70 mph "Congestion at J2 exit". :confused:

Message on the westbound carriageway approaching a long queue at the junction 2 exit "Stay Home Save Lives". :shock:
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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the cheesecake man wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:41Message on the westbound carriageway approaching a long queue at the junction 2 exit "Stay Home Save Lives". :shock:
Good advice. If you stayed at home you wouldn't be in the queue :)
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Chris5156 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 13:34
the cheesecake man wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 12:41Message on the westbound carriageway approaching a long queue at the junction 2 exit "Stay Home Save Lives". :shock:
Good advice. If you stayed at home you wouldn't be in the queue :)
:laugh:

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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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I remember when I was younger on the motorway with my dad, we'd get caught by signs claiming that there were 'severe delays' or an accident, or something to that effect with an advisory or enforced speed limit, just to pass the area and find that no such queues, delays or accidents were on the road at all. It doesn't seem to happen anymore; I suppose they are more sceptical of reports and press for greater details now to avoid false positives and unnecessarily slowing people down.
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Matthew
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

Post by Matthew »

Not entirely. It comes about with more strategic consideration.

In the days of old, you may be happily travelling along a motorway through a county, without any warning of problem. Suddenly you crossed a border and see trouble.

Then, the Police would manage the signs, and any warning of problem was very much related to whether they'd passed a timely message on to their neighbouring colleagues.

Now there's far more scrutiny; both from a tactical and regional perspective, as they're all managed by Highways England control teams.

The key point is safety. It's not about being skeptical on reports, it's about being proactive and managing any reported matters.
Opinion is purely my own and all those other exceptions and excuses.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Jack wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 22:10I remember when I was younger on the motorway with my dad, we'd get caught by signs claiming that there were 'severe delays' or an accident, or something to that effect with an advisory or enforced speed limit, just to pass the area and find that no such queues, delays or accidents were on the road at all. It doesn't seem to happen anymore; I suppose they are more sceptical of reports and press for greater details now to avoid false positives and unnecessarily slowing people down.
If the warnings were about a particular incident then it may be that better CCTV coverage means that phantom reports or cleared incidents can be dismissed more quickly these days.

The other thing to remember is that variable speed limits will often look like they were unnecessary, but that can just mean they are doing their job! The idea behind VSL is that when traffic starts to build up, by throttling back traffic coming into the congested area they can prevent queues from building up. So by having a few miles of running at 50, you then get a clear run through and it looks as though there was no reason for the reduced limit ... but if they hadn't put the 50 limit in then the traffic would very likely have snarled up and you would have been down to a crawl and taking a lot longer overall.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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Stevie D wrote: Sat Mar 06, 2021 00:12
Jack wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 22:10I remember when I was younger on the motorway with my dad, we'd get caught by signs claiming that there were 'severe delays' or an accident, or something to that effect with an advisory or enforced speed limit, just to pass the area and find that no such queues, delays or accidents were on the road at all. It doesn't seem to happen anymore; I suppose they are more sceptical of reports and press for greater details now to avoid false positives and unnecessarily slowing people down.
If the warnings were about a particular incident then it may be that better CCTV coverage means that phantom reports or cleared incidents can be dismissed more quickly these days.

The other thing to remember is that variable speed limits will often look like they were unnecessary, but that can just mean they are doing their job! The idea behind VSL is that when traffic starts to build up, by throttling back traffic coming into the congested area they can prevent queues from building up. So by having a few miles of running at 50, you then get a clear run through and it looks as though there was no reason for the reduced limit ... but if they hadn't put the 50 limit in then the traffic would very likely have snarled up and you would have been down to a crawl and taking a lot longer overall.
This. This this this.

I just wish more drivers were aware that VSL is working when the limit seems unnecessary.

I'm sure many ignore the VSL when they're in a rush and things are seemingly clear. But every time that happens, the queue forms. Inevitably.
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Re: Pointless motorway overhead messages

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