Pointless motorway overhead messages

[Big L]

Both directions yesterday on the M40 we had "A5 closed after A43", but no hint which direction.

[ais523]

Both directions yesterday on the M40 we had "A5 closed after A43", but no hint which direction.

The A5 and M40 run broadly parallel, making this even more confusing. Not only is it unclear whether it's closed north or south of the A43, you'd think that M40 traffic might also care about where the other end of the closure is! (Perhaps they meant "A43 closed after A5", which would have made considerably more sense to show M40 traffic – which is more likely to be using the A43 than the A5 – and which would have been unambiguous.)

[Big L]

Coming north on the M1 on Sunday evening, in the Luton/MK area dynamic hard shoulder section. Speed limits dropped from NSL to 60 to 50 and finally 40 with a red x above the hard shoulder and a message sign "Lane closure". Just after this a HE womble parked behind a broken down car on the hard shoulder.

Nanny state-ing at its very best.

Announcing the out-of-use hard shoulder being closed as a lane closure?

[ais523]

Maybe whoever put the sign up thought it was ALR.

The DHSR/ALR distinction confuses motorists often enough, so maybe it confuses the CCTV operators too sometimes.

[Alderpoint]

Both directions yesterday on the M40 we had "A5 closed after A43", but no hint which direction.

The A5 and M40 run broadly parallel, making this even more confusing. Not only is it unclear whether it's closed north or south of the A43, you'd think that M40 traffic might also care about where the other end of the closure is! (Perhaps they meant "A43 closed after A5", which would have made considerably more sense to show M40 traffic – which is more likely to be using the A43 than the A5 – and which would have been unambiguous.)

The A5 is closed for ~17 weeks in the middle of Towcester until the end of November.

[KeithW]

There was a series of messages on the M25 and M11 this morning that were accurate but misleading.

The first variant was
M11 J14
Exit Closed

The second was
To J8 (A120)
7 MINS

What was not mentioned was that a water main had burst flooding lane 1 Northbound between J12 and J13 which left the lane closed as several teams of highways and water company men dug it up to find the leak.
https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... e-15240277

It would have been really useful to know this Before
(1) I decided to use the M11 instead of continuing round the M25 to pick up the A1(M)
(2) I ran into the end of the queue just past J11

Then they added insult to injury when a matrix sign just past J12 said
INCIDENT
SLOW DOWN

Funnily enough I had guessed this much in the 30 minutes it took to get from J11 to J12
Then the Matrix sign between J12 and J13 proudly declaimed
LANE 1
CLOSED - SLOW

Yeah being in Lane 2 crawling past men with diggers we had noticed this.

[andrewwoods]

Both directions yesterday on the M40 we had "A5 closed after A43", but no hint which direction.

The A5 and M40 run broadly parallel, making this even more confusing. Not only is it unclear whether it's closed north or south of the A43, you'd think that M40 traffic might also care about where the other end of the closure is! (Perhaps they meant "A43 closed after A5", which would have made considerably more sense to show M40 traffic – which is more likely to be using the A43 than the A5 – and which would have been unambiguous.)

The A5 is closed for ~17 weeks in the middle of Towcester until the end of November.

So "A5(S) closed after A43" would have been MUCH more helpful.

[Al__S]

Not Motorway, I appreciate, but nearing one- on the A9, Dunblane bypass southbound approaching the Keir roundabout. Overhead, a warning that the A82 was closed southbound from Crianlarich.

For those of you with a shaky grasp of Scotland's geography, I'll give you a minute to consult the road atlas or mapping site of your choice.

Now, could someone explain why anyone on that stretch of road would need that information?

Other than a tiny % of people going to Ardlui or Inverarnan who at the very least should have already turned off at the A820.

[Alderpoint]

So "A5(S) closed after A43" would have been MUCH more helpful.

But I'd read that as Northbound being open. Which it isn't.

[ManomayLR]

Maybe whoever put the sign up thought it was ALR.

The DHSR/ALR distinction confuses motorists often enough, so maybe it confuses the CCTV operators too sometimes.

Well the J6a-10 can't close the hard shoulder (or should I say hardshoulder cus that's what the VMS say!) and the to-be 13-16 will be ALR.

The J10-13 DHS scheme needs to be upgraded to ALR. Leave the gantries and cameras in place, just install a concrete barrier and break the hard shoulder line. It'll take all of a couple of months.
The upgraded J10-13 will be the best one out there for ALR schemes, for these reasons:

• More ERAs than just the 1.6 miles as with DHS, they always has more ERAs.

• Previous hard shoulder cameras every few meters stay in place, used instead for stopped vehicle detection in lane 1

• Full gantries provide optimised lane control systems compared to standalone MS4 systems.

[andrewwoods]

So "A5(S) closed after A43" would have been MUCH more helpful.

But I'd read that as Northbound being open. Which it isn't.

It seems to be open North from the A43/A5 junction, although closed in the town centre.

So, if I wanted to M40 - A43 - A5 to Weeden (say) then the road is open, but the signs imply that it might not be.
I hate ambiguity on road signs, it requires brain power which should be devoted to the road / other traffic.

Andrew

[Big L]

A similar thing this morning on the westbound M54, saying "A49 closed after A5 Shrewsbury". Which way?

What makes it worse is that I was heading directly towards both A5/A49 junctions rather than it being information about a tangential route probably only really relevant to a minority of users.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

Not Motorway, I appreciate, but nearing one- on the A9, Dunblane bypass southbound approaching the Keir roundabout. Overhead, a warning that the A82 was closed southbound from Crianlarich.

For those of you with a shaky grasp of Scotland's geography, I'll give you a minute to consult the road atlas or mapping site of your choice.

Now, could someone explain why anyone on that stretch of road would need that information?

Other than a tiny % of people going to Ardlui or Inverarnan who at the very least should have already turned off at the A820.

That warning would have been more relevant if you were near Perth as you would turn off the A9 there for the A85 to Crianlarich. By the time that you reach Dunblane on the southbound A9, you would use the M9, A84 and A811 to reach Loch Lomond.

[Al__S]

Not Motorway, I appreciate, but nearing one- on the A9, Dunblane bypass southbound approaching the Keir roundabout. Overhead, a warning that the A82 was closed southbound from Crianlarich.

For those of you with a shaky grasp of Scotland's geography, I'll give you a minute to consult the road atlas or mapping site of your choice.

Now, could someone explain why anyone on that stretch of road would need that information?

Other than a tiny % of people going to Ardlui or Inverarnan who at the very least should have already turned off at the A820.

That warning would have been more relevant if you were near Perth as you would turn off the A9 there for the A85 to Crianlarich. By the time that you reach Dunblane on the southbound A9, you would use the M9, A84 and A811 to reach Loch Lomond.

Well quite. Rather what I was getting at! It is massively out of place

[ROAD ROVER]

All this week, gantries on M6 warning that it will be closed from J14 to 15 on Saturday. When l got there tonight they were in the process of closing it
despite the fact there had been no warnings of that until it was happening.

[Robert Kilcoyne]

All this week, gantries on M6 warning that it will be closed from J14 to 15 on Saturday. When l got there tonight they were in the process of closing it
despite the fact there had been no warnings of that until it was happening.

According to the Highways England website, the M6 is closed overnight from 8 p.m. this Saturday:-
https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... -motorway/

[Johnathan404]

Question.

Instead of alternating between "M27 J7-J4 LONG DELAYS" and "M3 M27-J12 LONG DELAYS", could the two messages not be merged? "M27 J7-M3 J12 LONG DELAYS"?

Surely that would give a clearer picture of the problem and be no more complicated than the second sign.

[Big L]

Driving back home from Newcastle on Friday evening there were signs as far north as at least Dishforth warning the A1 closed after A something or other was closed. Further south the signs alternated with A1 closed at Grantham, which was much more useful, and around Doncaster was the instruction to take the M18 for the South. So far so useful. Most of the signs on the southbound M18 AFTER the A1 junction continued the same A1 closed messages, which seemed less useful though.

Onto the M1, and for the first time since it opened as 4 lanes there was no 60 (or lower) limit, which was a surprise for 5pm. However, several of the message signs were displaying something like "Air quality testing". Now what am I to do with this information?

[fras]

As we drove back from Manchester, every single gantry sign on the M56 between the M60 and Junction 7 had the word "End" on it. But there had been nothing about any incident or anything.

Maybe Highways England know something we don't - "The End of the World is Nigh" maybe !

[ais523]

So here on the A38(M), there are two gantries pretty much one directly after another.

A couple of days ago, an accident on the A38(M) lead to the leftmost three lanes being closed (so northbound traffic was using the tidal flow lane, southbound traffic two lanes); this was the afternoon peak so the tidal flow was configured like that anyway, but I'm curious as to whether the tidal flow lane would be used to allow more lanes to be closed around accidents at other times.

Anyway, the surprising thing was how this closure was signed. The distant gantry had × × × 40, as might be expected. However, the nearer one had ↘ ↘ 40 ↙, which moves people into the wrong lane! (The gantry at the start of the motorway was) ↘ 40, moving people into the correct lane, so if you were following the advisory lane-closing signs you'd have to zigzag from lane 2 before the lane gain into lane 2 after the lane gain (i.e. one lane to the left) and then lane 4 (i.e. two lanes to the right).

I partially blame the gantries for putting a lane control signal above a tiger-tail rather than above an actual lane, which can easily lead to confusion; but surely, there has to be a better way of signing the closure than this! That said, possibly due to the fact that both gantries are visible simultaneously, the vehicles were in general very good at handling the 3-into-1 merge and almost nobody went underneath a red X. Hopefully compliance levels are that high on the motorway network in general, but perhaps the drivers were being particularly well-behaved on the A38(M) due to the tidal flow nature of it making the gantry signals particularly relevant.

As a bit of bonus botching, which could have been very dangerous: one of the involved vehicles was moved to an emergency refuge area while i was still stuck in the resulting queue, and then the gantries were changed to open all four lanes northbound, but a member of the police was still standing in lane 1, which became a live lane with a person standing in it! Luckily, they got to safety in time, but you'd think there'd be some check to ensure that the lane was clear before opening it.

Interestingly, until this situation occurred, I didn't even realise the A38(M) had emergency refuge areas; they don't have prominent signage and they're hard to spot. Is this the original smart motorway?